Perceptual distortions in late-teens predict psychotic symptoms in mid-life • Hacker News Board

Re: Perceptual distortions in late-teens predict psychotic symptoms in mid-life

#41

Post by Causality1 » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 9:03 PM UTC

heavyset_go wrote: post #24

colordrops wrote: post #5

I have always had these distortions throughout my life. I sometimes feel like high-functioning psychotic. I recall the story of that researcher James Fallon that found out he was a psychopath when he scanned his own brain. Everything feels intellectualized rather than a concrete physical reality.

One feature of psychosis and mental illness, in general, is a lack of insight into one's own condition, or the lack of a complete picture into how symptoms impact one's thoughts and behaviors. In psychosis, this very pronounced because many of those who experience psychosis don't know they're experiencing delusions or hallucinations. It's all very real to them. The fact that you have an awareness of your distortions…

You're leaving out a key aspect, which is "while it's happening". My mentally ill friends are some of the most introspective, self-aware people I know. They understand exactly what happens to them and how it affects them. They just don't have the ability to do a lot about it while it's happening.

Re: Perceptual distortions in late-teens predict psychotic symptoms in mid-life

#42

Post by throwuxiytayq » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 9:05 PM UTC

shrimpx wrote: post #34

ojnabieoot wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me (as someone formally diagnosed with schizophrenia): as a child I had a lot of flickering lights/shadows and brief whispers/noises, horrible depth perception, frequent dizziness, and bad temperature coordination (sweating or shivering way too much in response to weather). One particular indication which I thought was universal but is apparently somewhat uncommon: visual “snow” in low light conditions, meaning t…

When I close my eyes I see "snow", and yes the same thing with my eyes opened in the dark. But this is normal, no? It seems like seeing pure black is abnormal. There will be some kind of noise on the optic nerve, it's hard to imagine it being hard "off".

Same thing here. Male/mid-30s and no psychotic symptoms, so unlikely to get them now, hopefully. I have always noticed audiovisual "brain glitches" every once in a while, but I think that's because I find it interesting to look for them...

Re: Perceptual distortions in late-teens predict psychotic symptoms in mid-life

#43

Post by TheOtherHobbes » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 9:15 PM UTC

runawaybottle wrote: post #33

GavinMcG wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Psychosis and psychopathy are distinct, for what it's worth.

They are distinct, but the ego’s attempt to rationalize what they are experiencing is often part of the same framework. Paranoia, delusions of grandeur, narcissism, me-against-the-world (victom-playing). Drug abuse, criminality, and to a lesser extent - sheer failure at something, also lead to this framework. I failed this class because the education system sucks , I’m burnt out at work because my company sucks , etc…

You're conflating different things that are unrelated.

Symptomatically, personality disorders are basically relational dysfunctions. Some are developed as compensations for barely having an ego at all. They're fairly well documented.

The most shocking thing for outsiders is realising how alien they are. People with no knowledge of psychology literally cannot imagine how it's possible for people with these issues to lie consistently without guilt, act without empathy, and have conversations that appear coherent but make no sense at all relationally.

Drug abuse is a different issue with a much wider range of causes.

Burn out and educational failures are real issues and can be caused by real external problems. Someone who has a poor teacher objectively, or even just a teacher who is a bad fit, does not have the same psychology as someone who persuades themselves all teachers are bad because teaching itself is evil.

Re: Perceptual distortions in late-teens predict psychotic symptoms in mid-life

#44

Post by throwuxiytayq » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 9:18 PM UTC

anyfoo wrote: post #38

colechristensen wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They seem to be lumping things together pretty widely which is a disservice to people like you. A bit of hallucinating here and there is quite common especially as you age and isn't a big deal (though if it happens suddenly go see a doctor, it can be a symptom of something happening), being unable to determine what is and is not real can be quite a problem.

Can you elaborate a bit? I don't remember hallucinating when growing up[1], so I'm interested what this would look like. I don't doubt that it may still be common without everyone experiencing it. [1] Or ever, really, unless fever dreams when being really sick count. Though, without any reference point to compare to, they really seemed more like intense dreams.

I consider myself to be a very mentally-stable person, but I have encountered occasional hallucination-like experiences. They're very brief, and my brain seems to correct itself retroactively, which makes them somewhat difficult to notice. For example, a soft noise could be vividly interpreted as someone calling my name, but when it becomes apparent that this didn't happen, my brain files the experience as "probably misheard something", and my attention is immediately diverted. Supposedly smell hallucinations are pretty common too. These are hard to recall because they're so unremarkable. It's difficult to tell these things from common daily "mistakes", but is there really a difference except in effect size?

Re: Perceptual distortions in late-teens predict psychotic symptoms in mid-life

#45

Post by swagasaurus-rex » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 9:20 PM UTC

sitharus wrote: post #40

shrimpx wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I close my eyes I see "snow", and yes the same thing with my eyes opened in the dark. But this is normal, no? It seems like seeing pure black is abnormal. There will be some kind of noise on the optic nerve, it's hard to imagine it being hard "off".

Seeing snow when your eyes are closed or in darkness is fairly typical from what I understand. Visual snow as a diagnosis is visible at least in reading-level light and against light backgrounds. I see snow against all colours in a typical office environment. It’s less noticeable in daylight but still there.

I've always had visual glows when I close my eyes. Not eye floaters, I only see those when my eyes are open.

When I close my eye, I usually see an outline of bright/dark somewhat matching what I last saw, but desaturated and splotchy.

If I keep my eyes close, the patches kinda drift around. It's kinda fun to watch sometimes but I get bored eventually open my eyes.

I've always assumed its my eyes just adjusting to the dark, or maybe its residual light my eyelids can't filter out.

Re: Perceptual distortions in late-teens predict psychotic symptoms in mid-life

#46

Post by leksak » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 9:26 PM UTC

AnEro wrote: post #6

So for the med nerds in here, what would this mean for someone that have something like a dysmorphia or other distortions around eating disorders. Is there a distinction between those visual distortions and a less structured one?

In a book on eating disorders I recall an anecdote relating back to World War 2 and interviews with people that survived various camps while extremely malnourished. Several people we're completely out of touch with how skinny they were. The book had a very women-centric perspective so the only stories pertained to women perceiving themselves as curvaceous (in the positive sense) despite being very skinny. Their body image was distorted from being so underfed but unlike a person presenting with something like anorexia the way they viewed their body was not as "hateful".

Re: Perceptual distortions in late-teens predict psychotic symptoms in mid-life

#47

Post by runawaybottle » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 9:30 PM UTC

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #43

runawaybottle wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are distinct, but the ego’s attempt to rationalize what they are experiencing is often part of the same framework. Paranoia, delusions of grandeur, narcissism, me-against-the-world (victom-playing). Drug abuse, criminality, and to a lesser extent - sheer failure at something, also lead to this framework. I failed this class because the education system sucks , I’m burnt out at work because my company sucks , etc…

You're conflating different things that are unrelated. Symptomatically, personality disorders are basically relational dysfunctions. Some are developed as compensations for barely having an ego at all. They're fairly well documented. The most shocking thing for outsiders is realising how alien they are. People with no knowledge of psychology literally cannot imagine how it's possible for people with these issues to l…

So, what are you implying, that shrinks know exactly who is off their rocker within a few sessions?

Re: Perceptual distortions in late-teens predict psychotic symptoms in mid-life

#48

Post by kayodelycaon » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 9:44 PM UTC

heavyset_go wrote: post #24

colordrops wrote: post #5

I have always had these distortions throughout my life. I sometimes feel like high-functioning psychotic. I recall the story of that researcher James Fallon that found out he was a psychopath when he scanned his own brain. Everything feels intellectualized rather than a concrete physical reality.

One feature of psychosis and mental illness, in general, is a lack of insight into one's own condition, or the lack of a complete picture into how symptoms impact one's thoughts and behaviors. In psychosis, this very pronounced because many of those who experience psychosis don't know they're experiencing delusions or hallucinations. It's all very real to them. The fact that you have an awareness of your distortions…

I’ve had psychosis and knew I was completely out of reality. The problem was my rational brain wasn’t in the driver’s seat. So I got to watch myself believe and do things I didn’t want.

Re: Perceptual distortions in late-teens predict psychotic symptoms in mid-life

#49

Post by loves_mangoes » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 9:47 PM UTC

pjerem wrote: post #19

ImuMotive wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get a world tilting thing maybe once a year. Usually while falling asleep. I also sometimes get this weird perceptual thing where objects look huge, again, normally while in a dark room. I've also had odd sensations that accompany these perceptual changes. All of these occur very rarely. Like I said, maybe twice a year, but closer to once per year. I can't find it now, but I had learned about seizure activity and h…

> I also sometimes get this weird perceptual thing where objects look huge, again, normally while in a dark room. Does this happen in total black ? I sometimes (really rarely, like once or twice a year) have a strange « feeling » at night while in my bed without any source of light : I can distinctively see the objects around me. The twist is : I’m heavily myopic and even with my glasses (which I don’t wear at night)…

I've had an object appear huge once (right after an LSD trip), so might as well share my anecdote.

For me it was in a dark environment (bedroom), but I was looking at my phone, without glasses, and holding it pretty close to my eyes (I'm also heavily myopic) so that it occupied maybe ~60% of my field of vision.

The "picture" I had in my field of vision never changed, the "pixels" (though I don't think there is such a thing) did not change. But suddenly my phone was this giant monolith just above my head.

Consciously I could clearly tell this was a hallucination, but the dissonance of having this seemingly suddenly huge object held right above my head was really unsettling to me, a bit scary even.

I'm so used to not questioning how my sense of scale pretty much always matches what I see, it never occurred to me my instinct could be fooled by this wide a margin while consciously seeing that everything was normal.

But on the other hand, I can't say I've really ever had an unusually distinctive awareness of objects like you describe.

Re: Perceptual distortions in late-teens predict psychotic symptoms in mid-life

#50

Post by BrianOnHN » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 9:49 PM UTC

throwuxiytayq wrote: post #44

anyfoo wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate a bit? I don't remember hallucinating when growing up[1], so I'm interested what this would look like. I don't doubt that it may still be common without everyone experiencing it. [1] Or ever, really, unless fever dreams when being really sick count. Though, without any reference point to compare to, they really seemed more like intense dreams.

I consider myself to be a very mentally-stable person, but I have encountered occasional hallucination-like experiences. They're very brief, and my brain seems to correct itself retroactively , which makes them somewhat difficult to notice. For example, a soft noise could be vividly interpreted as someone calling my name, but when it becomes apparent that this didn't happen, my brain files the experience as "probably…

This, and similarly Déjà vu, both happen to me too, very occasionally. I definitely also see a correlation with times I'm significantly fatigued, for example after being awake for 20 hours during a multi-day fast.