Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines • Hacker News Board

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#361

Post by criddell » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 8:56 PM UTC

lancemurdock wrote: post #281

roberttod wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The FDA decides what counts as an emergency, and if they wanted to manipulate the approval process then that would be the least of our problems. Further, if we can't react to a pandemic which could be even quicker spreading and more deadly than covid because we're unable to lower the risk tolerance for a cure/vaccine then that seems to be complete against any common sense.

I totally agree with you. I just don't agree with forcing/mandating anything. People should be able to decide for themselves what risk tolerance they want to be apart of. If people perceived covid to be as deadly as it is made out to be, we wouldn't have low vaccination rates. People are not getting the vaccine because they don't see a need too.

> People should be able to decide for themselves what risk tolerance they want to be apart of.

If you decide that you accept the risk of cancer from smoking, should you be allowed to smoke at your desk?

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#362

Post by pseudalopex » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 8:57 PM UTC

lancemurdock wrote: post #319

roberttod wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many more are not getting the vaccine because of mis and disinformation. I agree that people should never be forced, but requiring unvaccinated people to take extra safety precautions or mandating vaccines to come back into the office seems like a good idea. There is also a small percentage of vaccinated people that will die of covid due to contact with unvaccinated.

To me its a slippery slope that we are just giving more power to the companies & reducing individual choice. Now it's mandate a vaccine, next its take pep pills to overcome poor performance reviews or all employees must abstain for alcohol. In the future could we argue that since most felons come from low income households, that you need to be of a certain income threshold to reproduce? These are batshit crazy things…

Schools have required vaccines for a long time.

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#363

Post by m45t3r » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 9:05 PM UTC

leereeves wrote: post #231

m45t3r wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

However there are many more studies of variations for vaccinated people than for natural immunity. It may be because the laboratories themselves are interested commercially for those studies, while natural immunity doesn't bring them any commercial benefit, but this doesn't change from the information we have right now. So TL;DR, it is just better to be vaccinated right now.

That TL;DR doesn't follow from the main paragraph, which simply says we don't know if it's better to be vaccinated.

Yeah, sorry, what I meant was that in conclusion it was better to be vaccinated considering the studies we have (not a TL;DR).

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#364

Post by TulliusCicero » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 9:05 PM UTC

MattGaiser wrote: post #354

TulliusCicero wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's private information by default, but here it's relevant for employment. You can refuse to give the information, of course, but they can also refuse to employ you for that.

But what prevents someone from just lying? How is this not just an honour system thing?

I think you could present medical records, same as how it works currently for public school vaccination mandates.

It's weird how many people are acting like this is some bizarre, novel thing. We've had mandatory vaccines for public schooling for decades now. Vaccines are also commonly required for some types of visas/immigration. Requiring vaccination in the interest of public health is not new.

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#365

Post by gilbetron » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 9:05 PM UTC

cbradford wrote: post #344

Whatarethese wrote: post #2

Good. Its time to stop messing around with this. The vaccines are tested and are safe.

That is a statement of opinion, not a fact. It is misinformation statements like this that need to be stamped out in social media.

1.1 billion fully vaccinated, maybe a few dozen deaths can be contributed.

200 million reported covid cases, if we go with typical estimates of 2-5X unreported, then we get to a similar number of just over a billion infected, with 4.2 million deaths, not to mention all the nasty "long covid" (hate the expression, btw) cases that are probably higher than that.

Those are facts.

You can say, without evidence, that the vaccines will cause your head to explode in 10 years, but I can say the same thing about Covid infections.

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#366

Post by pseudalopex » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 9:05 PM UTC

sharken wrote: post #199

bradstewart wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand this argument. This isn't the first time vaccines have been required. For instance, every state has required vaccines for school attendance--from kindergarten through college. Here's the list for Texas: https://dshs.texas.gov/immunize/school/school-requirements.a... Are you opposed to those mandates as well, or is this one different?

This one is different. In my country in 2018, deaths caused by the flu was more than 50% of all registered Corona deaths. Just that season alone. Now some wants to mandate Corona vaccines, but then what about flu vaccines ?

Did your country restrict or mandate anything to prevent COVID-19 spreading?

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#367

Post by TulliusCicero » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 9:09 PM UTC

version_five wrote: post #352

It saddens me to see that all the top comments on these posts are just some empty populist yelling, variations on "good, after all, there's a war going on". And counterpoints end up being strawmen about vaccines not working anyway. Whatever your end conclusion about whether this is a good move, it's a complex issue that balances a lot of things and is worthy of serious discussion. Instead we get basically an online n…

It's not actually very complex, and in fact for public schools was already a settled issue. It's only become controversial because of rising anti-vaxx sentiment and conspiratorial thinking.

Just because something has become a flashpoint issue doesn't mean it's complex. Gay marriage was also controversial for a long time, despite being quite straightforward.

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#368

Post by dragonwriter » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 9:28 PM UTC

ffggvv wrote: post #321

dragonwriter wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only if HIV status has a significant relevance to your ability to perform your job duties (including things like the safety of other workers, the public, etc., when your work.) Of course, unless your job involves something unusual like having sex with your coworkers or the public, that's not all that likely.

a lot of jobs like machinists often get cuts on the job that expose your blood

> a lot of jobs like machinists often get cuts on the job that expose your blood

And how many instances of person-to-person HIV transmissions have been caused by that kind of occupational exposure?

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#369

Post by astura » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 9:31 PM UTC

version_five wrote: post #352

It saddens me to see that all the top comments on these posts are just some empty populist yelling, variations on "good, after all, there's a war going on". And counterpoints end up being strawmen about vaccines not working anyway. Whatever your end conclusion about whether this is a good move, it's a complex issue that balances a lot of things and is worthy of serious discussion. Instead we get basically an online n…

>Whatever your end conclusion about whether this is a good move, it's a complex issue that balances a lot of things and is worthy of serious discussion.

Ok, so why don't you start the "serious discussion" instead of just complaining? What exactly "complex" about it?

All 50 states, DC, and Puerto Rico have immunization requirements for enrollment in public schools and many private schools and daycares have similar requirements. On the federal level the military has all sorts of immunization requirements and USCIS have immunization requirements for visa/green card applicants.

As a result the vast majority of adults are vaccinated against a whole host of infectious diseases so companies don't usually find it urgent to implement their own policies - vaccine preventable illnesses simply aren't an issue in American offices.

We, as a society, have overwhelmingly accepted immunization requirements as a general concept - there's not really much to discuss.

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#370

Post by ubercow13 » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 9:33 PM UTC

native_samples wrote: post #328

roberttod wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're about to go through another spike in cases in the US because of the Delta variant spreading through the unvaxed population. This has implications for vaccinated people. We may need to reintroduce some lockdown rules and the Delta variant is still going to kill some vaccinated people (in much lower numbers, but unnecessary).

Vaccinated people catch and spread COVID just like the unvaccinated. The vaccines don't seem to affect transmission at all. Consider Iceland. It has a highly vaccinated population (>70%, supposedly the herd immunity threshold), yet is now seeing a third wave of the same magnitude as prior waves anyway. It seems the cause may be that the vaccines don't create mucosal immunity like natural infection would. The vaccines…

>Why? Lockdowns have no effect on anything, it is proven beyond doubt these days. Plenty of studies show that now.

What?

https://www.journalofinfection.com/article/S0163-4453(21)003...

>Twenty-seven studies analysed the relation between lockdown and the reproduction number, case growth rates and cases, and 18 out them (67%) found an association with their reduction. Five studies found lockdowns to be the most effective control measure found it to be the only measure reducing the reproduction number below one. In contrast, five studies found it to be the least effective measure studied

Right, really sounds like it's proven beyond doubt