Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines • Hacker News Board

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#221

Post by lamontcg » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 6:03 PM UTC

Panther34543 wrote: post #156

Ugg, why doesn't anybody, whether it be government officials, employers, whatever, ever consider those with natural immunity? It's like some weird joke. The official CDC estimates over 115 MILLION natural infections in the U.S. alone, and that only accounts for February 2020-March 2021 . It doesn't account for all the infections before February 2020 (I and most of my coworkers in downtown SF got it in January) nor an…

You have to prove natural infection, and at least 2/3rd of those natural infections never got tested at all, and then there's the piles of people who swear up and down they caught it in November of 2019 and other self-diagnosis.

And the virus is basically just an mRNA vaccine with extra stuff to self replicate. The virus RNA genome is its mRNA so its the same thing as the mRNA vaccine. You know you can beat the vaccine because you know you beat the virus. You might still benefit from antibodies to the rest of the genome, which is great. Natural immunity just comes at the cost of a pile more side effects and a bunch of actually self-replicating virions that might put you in the hospital if things spiral out of control.

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#222

Post by thisiscorrect » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 6:03 PM UTC

_djo_ wrote: post #214

leereeves wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Delta also presents a risk of breakthrough infection for vaccinated people. And that seems likely to lead to the development of new strains against which the current vaccines are ineffective, as the virus mutates in vaccinated people. I'm vaccinated myself, but I don't count on that providing protection for long. I expect it to be more like the flu, for which yearly vaccines are required against whatever strains are…

Breakthrough infections with Delta remain relatively low amongst fully vaccinated people, with most cases not resulting in serious infections.

But isn't it true that most cases don't result in serious infections, regardless of vaccination status? I recall reading at one point that 80% of infections are asymptomatic or very mild.

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#223

Post by tome » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 6:03 PM UTC

ericmay wrote: post #181

azangru wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you have any evidence to suggest a risk with the mRNA delivery vehicle? My point is, an appeal to history does not work when you are dealing with something new. By the way, how long have we had vaccines based on adenovirus vectors?

> My point is, an appeal to history does not work when you are dealing with something new. I'm not appealing to history. I'm appealing to the science of creating vaccines. Do you take no vaccines? You could apply the same argument to the measles or flu vaccine. Nobody did until now. > By the way, how long have we had vaccines based on adenovirus vectors? Can you articulate in a scientific manner why an adenovirus wou…

> Can you articulate in a scientific manner why an adenovirus would be treated differently as it relates to the creation of vaccines and the body's response to them?

For whatever reason that is not the prevailing method when it comes to regulating new medical interventions.

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#224

Post by silicon2401 » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 6:03 PM UTC

calvano915 wrote: post #166

tome wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the third comment I've had to reply to to point out that the J&J vaccine is also based on barely tested technology. Is this really not widely understood? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viral_vector_vaccine

It seems that many commentors in this thread believe that the time for questioning has passed regarding EUA vaccines with completely new mechanisms. If it goes wrong later, well don't go blaming any of them since it was all "at-will" and "your choice".

Many commenters and members of the public in general don't believe in questioning, full stop. Fauci says XYZ is good, so XYZ is good.

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#225

Post by pb7 » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 6:04 PM UTC

rolobio wrote: post #173

TulliusCicero wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you don't. We do accept some risks, but in the case of cars, there are quite a few mandatory things involved designed to limit the risk: it's illegal to drive without a license, illegal to drive while drunk, cars are required to have various safety features to be street-legal, etc. Same principle here. Vaccines don't completely eliminate the risk of danger from covid, they only reduce it, just like the car regula…

I can get a job without a car. How soon until I can't get a job without modifying my body?

Probably around the same time you can shit yourself and walk around the office like that all day everyday.

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#226

Post by m45t3r » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 6:04 PM UTC

leereeves wrote: post #193

_djo_ wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Natural immunity is not as well understood as vaccine response and longevity for COVID-19. There's also increasing evidence that newer variants like Delta present a significant reinfection risk for those who were infected with the wildtype or even Alpha six or more months before.

Delta also presents a risk of breakthrough infection for vaccinated people. And that seems likely to lead to the development of new strains against which the current vaccines are ineffective, as the virus mutates in vaccinated people. I'm vaccinated myself, but I don't count on that providing protection for long. I expect it to be more like the flu, for which yearly vaccines are required against whatever strains are…

However there are many more studies of variations for vaccinated people than for natural immunity. It may be because the laboratories themselves are interested commercially for those studies, while natural immunity doesn't bring them any commercial benefit, but this doesn't change from the information we have right now.

So TL;DR, it is just better to be vaccinated right now.

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#227

Post by dragonwriter » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 6:04 PM UTC

endisneigh wrote: post #91

How are they going to even know you took the vaccine? Honor system? If they force you to disclose doesn't that break HIPAA? If it doesn't break HIPAA, then doesn't this create a precedent that employers can gain your medical history with arbitrary mandates? Seems like a lose-lose.

> If they force you to disclose doesn't that break HIPPA?

No, HIPAA prohibits, say, your insurer or medical provider (even if it is employer-funded) from disclosing info without your consent, including to your employer.

It does not prohibit the employer asking and you disclosing it. Nor does it prohibit adverse consequences by the employer for your failure to disclose, or for the facts thereby disclosed (though, for some medical information, the ADA or other law might do that.)

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#228

Post by roberttod » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 6:05 PM UTC

lancemurdock wrote: post #121

pb7 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the cost of not taking action (not vaccinating) exceeds the cost of taking action (vaccinating).

thats an incredibly loose definition and up for manipulation

The FDA decides what counts as an emergency, and if they wanted to manipulate the approval process then that would be the least of our problems.

Further, if we can't react to a pandemic which could be even quicker spreading and more deadly than covid because we're unable to lower the risk tolerance for a cure/vaccine then that seems to be complete against any common sense.

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#229

Post by majormajor » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 6:05 PM UTC

ffggvv wrote: post #184

mtoner23 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hippa only applies to medical professionals i believe. Employers can always ask for your medical records. This has always been the case.

so can employers for instance ask about HIV status and discriminate based on that?

Some googling suggests this is already done for pornography.

Re: Google Offices to Mandate Vaccines

#230

Post by rolobio » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 6:05 PM UTC

yupper32 wrote: post #180

rolobio wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm calling it now, they will require all employees to have this, remote or not.

For what reason? Arbitrary control? Why does the right think that every government mandate that they don't understand (masks are the big one) are just about arbitrary control over people? It seems like a very common theme.

Why would they do it?

They will do it because they are trying to save lives. They think they are doing harm by allowing people NOT to take the vaccine. After all, how many people will die by unvaccinated people spreading the disease? They have a duty to save other humans! That is what I think they believe.

My problem is that this is an overstep. They should stay in their lane, rather than mandating the health of their workers. If someone at Google died from drunk driving, would it be fair to ban alcohol? Of course not.