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Toyota has stepped up lobbying to preserve its investments in hybrids, hydrogen

arstechnica.com

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Re: Toyota has stepped up lobbying to preserve its investments in hybrids, hydrogen

#31

Post by jeromegv »

ajmurmann wrote: post #28
MelvinButtsESQ wrote: post #19

Production of batteries is the constraint ... previously, currently, and in foreseeable future ( Further, given this capacity, the numbers work out such that we are, on the macro level, DRASTICALLY more fuel efficient and environmentally friendly by putting more hybrids and Plug-in Hybrids (which have fewer batteries) on the road than we are by reserving said batteries for fewer pure EVs. 2.5 Priuses are better than…

Why mandate how emissions are cut, instead of heavily taxing carbon emissions and having the market find the best solution?

Voilà.

Re: Toyota has stepped up lobbying to preserve its investments in hybrids, hydrogen

#32

Post by BoorishBears »

MelvinButtsESQ wrote: post #19

Production of batteries is the constraint ... previously, currently, and in foreseeable future ( Further, given this capacity, the numbers work out such that we are, on the macro level, DRASTICALLY more fuel efficient and environmentally friendly by putting more hybrids and Plug-in Hybrids (which have fewer batteries) on the road than we are by reserving said batteries for fewer pure EVs. 2.5 Priuses are better than…

The 2nd Gen Chevy Volt was the Model 3 we deserved, but couldn't appreciate.

40-50 miles EV range meant that most people would have an EV most of the time, and use gas only on one off trips.

And while people 10 years behind on ICE advancements would immediately start yelling about dragging around a dead weight ICE all day, modern ICEs are incredibly light, efficient, and reliable in the type of application the Volt had them in, where they only need to run run at their optimal power band.

It didn't even look bad, and it had the same sensor suite AP1 did (of course GM used Mobileye's sensors as designed, so you weren't tempted to take your hands off to play mobile games, and they didn't end up in the back of firetrucks)

Re: Toyota has stepped up lobbying to preserve its investments in hybrids, hydrogen

#33

Post by CivBase »

> "If we are to make dramatic progress in electrification, it will require overcoming tremendous challenges, including refueling infrastructure, battery availability, consumer acceptance, and affordability," Robert Wimmer, director of energy and environmental research at Toyota Motor North America, told the Senate in March.

That's the supposed FUD? What about that was wrong? Are we just supposed to ignore the challenges ahead of us? I had to read through most of that article to even get there and that was the big controversy. This article is trash.

Re: Toyota has stepped up lobbying to preserve its investments in hybrids, hydrogen

#34

Post by NickM »

ramesh31 wrote: post #6

I think they bet perfectly fine, if you ignore the silly hydrogen efforts. Toyota has never been a technological front runner. They take the Apple approach; wait for something to be truly ready for prime time, then execute it better than anyone else. EV's are still 2% of the US market. And it will be a decade more until a 60+kwH EV is being sold for <$30k total upfront price out the door, which is where they need to…

And it will be a decade more until a 60+kwH EV is being sold for

“A decade more” seems way too pessimistic given current EV prices and battery capacities. The 2022 Bolt will have a starting price of $32k with a 65kWh battery, for example.

Re: Toyota has stepped up lobbying to preserve its investments in hybrids, hydrogen

#35

Post by eloff »

ajmurmann wrote: post #28
MelvinButtsESQ wrote: post #19

Production of batteries is the constraint ... previously, currently, and in foreseeable future ( Further, given this capacity, the numbers work out such that we are, on the macro level, DRASTICALLY more fuel efficient and environmentally friendly by putting more hybrids and Plug-in Hybrids (which have fewer batteries) on the road than we are by reserving said batteries for fewer pure EVs. 2.5 Priuses are better than…

Why mandate how emissions are cut, instead of heavily taxing carbon emissions and having the market find the best solution?

In general I agree with you. Simply taxing things with negative externalities enough to cover the true cost would simply and conclusively fix a lot of things we struggle with, faster and without relying on politicians.

I think it's politically very unpopular, but the economic theory behind it is extremely sound.

Re: Toyota has stepped up lobbying to preserve its investments in hybrids, hydrogen

#37

Post by WhompingWindows »

ajmurmann wrote: post #28
MelvinButtsESQ wrote: post #19

Production of batteries is the constraint ... previously, currently, and in foreseeable future ( Further, given this capacity, the numbers work out such that we are, on the macro level, DRASTICALLY more fuel efficient and environmentally friendly by putting more hybrids and Plug-in Hybrids (which have fewer batteries) on the road than we are by reserving said batteries for fewer pure EVs. 2.5 Priuses are better than…

Why mandate how emissions are cut, instead of heavily taxing carbon emissions and having the market find the best solution?

That sounds nice in theory, but it'll be years until it could pass through actual legislative channels in the US federal government. Neither side wants it, the GOP hates new taxes and loves fossil fuel companies; the Dems hate anything that looks regressive, which a gas tax would at first before the pay-back checks come (if it's a neutral scheme, who's to say how the carbon tax would be used).

Re: Toyota has stepped up lobbying to preserve its investments in hybrids, hydrogen

#38

Post by esalman »

ashtonkem wrote: post #4

My pet theory is that Toyota or Honda will be on life support by the end of next decade, if not dead. They both had a huge head start in batteries with their hybrids (Honda’s first hybrid was released in 1999), and they squandered it. Hopefully the Korean car companies crush them with superior products.

I just leased a fully loaded Highlander which I intend to buy out after 3 years. So Toyota is getting my money for next 9 years, unless anything disastrous happens. I actually have another 7 year old Corolla, on which I have a spent a grand total of $140 in maintenance (battery). In fact I plan to purchase an 86 or a Supra in next couple of years or so.

Last time I was driving a Hyundai, the engine lost power in the middle of evening rush hour traffic at 65mph on I-85, and the car had half the mileage of my Corolla.

Toyota is going nowhere.

Re: Toyota has stepped up lobbying to preserve its investments in hybrids, hydrogen

#40

Post by martin_henk »

Very good from Toyota. They take a diplomatic approach for the global society.

As they don't enforce a complete structural upheaval in a short period, but rather promise they will support old eco systems until we are really sure what works best in the post gasoline world.

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