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Please Bring Back Our Downvotes: Society Desperately Needs It

theapeiron.co.uk

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Re: Please Bring Back Our Downvotes: Society Desperately Needs It

#71

Post by state_less »

_v7gu wrote: post #48
gus_massa wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> then someone comes along with their four accounts and downvotes every comment I got In HN you can send an email to the mods so they can take a look. Also the site may detect it automatically (the details are unclear, it's part of the secret sauce). > because I'm not sufficiently ideological Avoid political threads. Everyone is talking pass each other, and you will not convince anyone. Upvote grey comments if they a…

> Avoid political threads. Coupled with the new catchphrase "everything is political", this is quite impossible to do.

The ground you walk on is not political. If folks learn to take it easy, we'll be in better shape.

Re: Please Bring Back Our Downvotes: Society Desperately Needs It

#72

Post by TchoBeer »

bitexploder wrote: post #30
spinax wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's especially bad on a site like HN - an account only gets a downvote capability if they've received what is it, 400 upvotes? - so you're assured that every downvote you receive is someone who says lots of things other people like to upvote (or are a serial link poster getting link karma upvotes). There is an echo chamber here based on how the downvote rules work, and I've watched people's comments get brigade down…

HN has a certain discussion parameters and moderation system on purpose. The goal on HN isn’t to allow open ended discussions on all topics. I for one appreciate that we can talk computers and technology here and that the moderators keep the average level of the discussion high. If I want politics and other garbage I’ll go somewhere else. I have never experienced any issues here. Been here a looong time. Don’t be edg…

There are many threads here about the politics of technology (big tech, open source vs closed source software, cryptocurrency and finance, the fabrication industry and China, etc) and there are also plenty of threads about politics unrelated or tangentially related to computers (off the top of my head, housing and homelessness, the schooling system, and climate change get discussed here not infrequently). HN isn't for just computers and technology, but rather for anything that sparks curiosity.

With that being said, the moderation here is very excellent and generally keeps the quality of discussion somewhat high, so I agree with your central thesis.

Re: Please Bring Back Our Downvotes: Society Desperately Needs It

#73

Post by spywaregorilla »

crazy_horse wrote: post #21

I've been in academia for awhile, I'm used to getting serious criticism. I'm a man, my whole life I've been told to toughen up. There's really almost nothing you can say to me that is going to hurt me. I really mean it. But downvotes? I pretty much won't post on HN or Reddit because of them (and the culture associated with it). I've got no problem being wrong, but when I spend a significant amount of time trying to r…

> I've been in academia for awhile, I'm used to getting serious criticism. I'm a man, my whole life I've been told to toughen up. There's really almost nothing you can say to me that is going to hurt me. I really mean it.

Tangential but whenever I read something like this, and people do post them a lot, I tend to assume they're actually normal, sensitive people who have learned that not showing any sign of harm means they're not experiencing any harm.

Nothing you can say can hurt me == I have an unhealthy habit of suppressing my negative emotions

Re: Please Bring Back Our Downvotes: Society Desperately Needs It

#74

Post by silicon2401 »

peakaboo wrote: post #12
WillDaSilva wrote: post #6

> The expression to feed into an anonymous algorithm that we don’t just not like something — that we actually dislike it. The author seems to assume that this sort of interaction would lead to these algorithms recommending similar content less, but these algorithms tend to prioritize engagement, not enjoyment. Downvotes are a form of engagement, so don't be surprised if these algorithms use your downvote patterns to…

Reddit had downvotes which means every thread is full of people agreeing with eachother. Creates an echo chamber. People don't want to get downvoted so they eventually stop posting. It's great for creating perception bubbles. Everyone agrees!

This is why I stopped posting on reddit and why I still feel somewhat comfortable posting on HN. It's been years since reddit crossed the line and just became a left-wing echo chamber like twitter (or any other mainstream media, really). I'm neither liberal nor conservative, but I can't stand participating in a community where you're expected to play along with the mob or else be vilified.

Re: Please Bring Back Our Downvotes: Society Desperately Needs It

#75

Post by TchoBeer »

aaaronic wrote: post #65
crazy_horse wrote: post #21

I've been in academia for awhile, I'm used to getting serious criticism. I'm a man, my whole life I've been told to toughen up. There's really almost nothing you can say to me that is going to hurt me. I really mean it. But downvotes? I pretty much won't post on HN or Reddit because of them (and the culture associated with it). I've got no problem being wrong, but when I spend a significant amount of time trying to r…

Downvoting here on HN does seem pretty arbitrary. (Either that, or I just don't post quality comments/posts :D) I do know sites like HN attempt to identify patterns of voting like you described in order to remove abusive accounts, but I don't know how successful they are. I could see downvoting requiring a minimal amount of feedback being a possibility, like you can only downvote if you are posting a public reply as…

Would it be better if you get down voted to hell and also get swamped with throwaway comments like "that's stupid"

Re: Please Bring Back Our Downvotes: Society Desperately Needs It

#76

Post by pavlov »

gus_massa wrote: post #32
crazy_horse wrote: post #21

I've been in academia for awhile, I'm used to getting serious criticism. I'm a man, my whole life I've been told to toughen up. There's really almost nothing you can say to me that is going to hurt me. I really mean it. But downvotes? I pretty much won't post on HN or Reddit because of them (and the culture associated with it). I've got no problem being wrong, but when I spend a significant amount of time trying to r…

> then someone comes along with their four accounts and downvotes every comment I got In HN you can send an email to the mods so they can take a look. Also the site may detect it automatically (the details are unclear, it's part of the secret sauce). > because I'm not sufficiently ideological Avoid political threads. Everyone is talking pass each other, and you will not convince anyone. Upvote grey comments if they a…

> ”Upvote grey comments if they are not offensive or very wrong”

Maybe there should be a separate URL to view recent comments with /graycomments, or /controversial, or something like that.

I’d certainly use that to sprinkle some upvotes. There are often high-quality comments that get downvotes early for whatever reason. It has a discouraging effect even if it gets corrected over time with more votes.

Re: Please Bring Back Our Downvotes: Society Desperately Needs It

#78

Post by okareaman »

crazy_horse wrote: post #21

I've been in academia for awhile, I'm used to getting serious criticism. I'm a man, my whole life I've been told to toughen up. There's really almost nothing you can say to me that is going to hurt me. I really mean it. But downvotes? I pretty much won't post on HN or Reddit because of them (and the culture associated with it). I've got no problem being wrong, but when I spend a significant amount of time trying to r…

I don't mind downvotes on my comments, I just wish a downvote required a comment stating some kind of reason for it. Even a short comment "I don't like this" would be telling because it would indicate they don't have a reason other than emotion. Often I initially get a bunch of downvotes and then later enough upvotes to even it out.

Re: Please Bring Back Our Downvotes: Society Desperately Needs It

#79

Post by OrvalWintermute »

crazy_horse wrote: post #21

I've been in academia for awhile, I'm used to getting serious criticism. I'm a man, my whole life I've been told to toughen up. There's really almost nothing you can say to me that is going to hurt me. I really mean it. But downvotes? I pretty much won't post on HN or Reddit because of them (and the culture associated with it). I've got no problem being wrong, but when I spend a significant amount of time trying to r…

Agree completely.

While in theory I completely agree downvotes should be around, in practice I have seen they are an ideological voting machine used to suppress opinions.

It is kind of unusual how fast the downvotes appear, as if there are downvote bots running on the HN & Reddit. I've posted a comment and had what appeared to be 3 downvotes within a minute.

Of course, I am an evidence driven technologist that is not very partisan so that could explain some of it.

Re: Please Bring Back Our Downvotes: Society Desperately Needs It

#80

Post by gdsdfe »

gus_massa wrote: post #32
crazy_horse wrote: post #21

I've been in academia for awhile, I'm used to getting serious criticism. I'm a man, my whole life I've been told to toughen up. There's really almost nothing you can say to me that is going to hurt me. I really mean it. But downvotes? I pretty much won't post on HN or Reddit because of them (and the culture associated with it). I've got no problem being wrong, but when I spend a significant amount of time trying to r…

> then someone comes along with their four accounts and downvotes every comment I got In HN you can send an email to the mods so they can take a look. Also the site may detect it automatically (the details are unclear, it's part of the secret sauce). > because I'm not sufficiently ideological Avoid political threads. Everyone is talking pass each other, and you will not convince anyone. Upvote grey comments if they a…

I think you're missing the point of what the guy is saying ... He's not asking for tips and tricks to live happier in a downvote world. He's saying, I think, that downvotes are conversation stoppers and does not help us get to the bottom of things and they should not be the default were people form communities.
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