France issues moratorium on prion research after fatal brain disease strikes • Hacker News Board

Re: France issues moratorium on prion research after fatal brain disease strikes

#11

Post by tedivm » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 1:23 PM UTC

imglorp wrote: post #6

> She had not been trained in handling dangerous prions or responding to accidents and did not wear both metal mesh and surgical gloves, as she was supposed to, says Julien Bensimhon, the family’s lawyer. The thumb should have been soaked in a bleach solution immediately, which did not happen, Bensimhon adds. Does bleach even affect proteins? Isn't that protocol for an organism you're afraid of?

Yeah, bleach does affect prions. Most of the studies I could find were tested on metal, not just someone's thumb. It looks bleach doesn't do a great job of penetrating tissue so the hope is to destroy the prions before they get into the cut, which seems more hopeful than effective to me.

Re: France issues moratorium on prion research after fatal brain disease strikes

#12

Post by MisterTea » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 1:24 PM UTC

imglorp wrote: post #6

> She had not been trained in handling dangerous prions or responding to accidents and did not wear both metal mesh and surgical gloves, as she was supposed to, says Julien Bensimhon, the family’s lawyer. The thumb should have been soaked in a bleach solution immediately, which did not happen, Bensimhon adds. Does bleach even affect proteins? Isn't that protocol for an organism you're afraid of?

> Does bleach even affect proteins? Isn't that protocol for an organism you're afraid of?

Yes, bleach's direct action is attacking proteins:

https://phys.org/news/2008-11-household-bacteria.html

Re: France issues moratorium on prion research after fatal brain disease strikes

#13

Post by circlefavshape » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 1:25 PM UTC

prions sounds very much like ice-nine

Re: France issues moratorium on prion research after fatal brain disease strikes

#14

Post by COGlory » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 1:25 PM UTC

imglorp wrote: post #6

> She had not been trained in handling dangerous prions or responding to accidents and did not wear both metal mesh and surgical gloves, as she was supposed to, says Julien Bensimhon, the family’s lawyer. The thumb should have been soaked in a bleach solution immediately, which did not happen, Bensimhon adds. Does bleach even affect proteins? Isn't that protocol for an organism you're afraid of?

>A 5-minute soak in a 40% solution of household bleach decontaminated stainless steel wires coated with chronic wasting disease (CWD) prions, according to a new study by National Institutes of Health scientists.

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/household-blea...

Re: France issues moratorium on prion research after fatal brain disease strikes

#15

Post by lab-worker » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 1:26 PM UTC

Fear mongering.

There was never a pandemic or a wide spread prion outbreak caused by a lab leak.

They should listen to the science and the scientists, and not politicize vital research that we need to prevent disease outbreaks.

Re: France issues moratorium on prion research after fatal brain disease strikes

#16

Post by Tsarbomb » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 1:32 PM UTC

circlefavshape wrote: post #13

prions sounds very much like ice-nine

That is an excellent way of thinking about them.

For anyone unfamiliar, OP is referring to the Kurt Vonnegut novel which has a fictional state of water (ice-nine) that immediately freezes all other water it comes into contact with into more ice-nine.

Edit: I committed a sin and didn't mention the title: Cat's Cradle.

Re: France issues moratorium on prion research after fatal brain disease strikes

#17

Post by jamespwilliams » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 1:33 PM UTC

Hm:

"long period of uncertainty began on 31 May 2010, when she stabbed her left thumb with a curved forceps while cleaning a cryostat—a machine that can cut tissues at very low temperatures—that she used to slice brain sections from transgenic mice infected with a sheep-adapted form of BSE. She pierced two layers of latex gloves and drew blood"

Later in the article:

""We conduct research only on mouse-adapted sheep prions, which have never been shown to be infectious to humans,” Aguzzi [neuropathologist at the University of Zurich] says."

It sounds like the assumption that mouse-adapted sheep prions can't infect humans may be flawed.

Re: France issues moratorium on prion research after fatal brain disease strikes

#18

Post by gonzo41 » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 1:33 PM UTC

AbrahamParangi wrote: post #9

The study of rare, contagious diseases seems likely enough to result in an eventual outbreak that it should be treated like enriching uranium. Which is to say, with great caution- and not like regular science but rather like the kind of science with potentially very negative externalities.

Welcome to the exciting world of duel use microbiology research. There's plenty of people are doing stuff that walks the line between learning new things and creating ways to weaponize germs. It's all a question of good governance.

Re: France issues moratorium on prion research after fatal brain disease strikes

#19

Post by ta988 » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 1:35 PM UTC

imglorp wrote: post #6

> She had not been trained in handling dangerous prions or responding to accidents and did not wear both metal mesh and surgical gloves, as she was supposed to, says Julien Bensimhon, the family’s lawyer. The thumb should have been soaked in a bleach solution immediately, which did not happen, Bensimhon adds. Does bleach even affect proteins? Isn't that protocol for an organism you're afraid of?

Yes it does destroy them efficiently, it unfolds them (so no more prion effect) and also aggregate them so they can't circulate.

Re: France issues moratorium on prion research after fatal brain disease strikes

#20

Post by ta988 » Wed, Jul 28, 2021, 1:37 PM UTC

lab-worker wrote: post #15

Fear mongering. There was never a pandemic or a wide spread prion outbreak caused by a lab leak. They should listen to the science and the scientists, and not politicize vital research that we need to prevent disease outbreaks.

Nobody is talking about a pandemic here. The risk is for people working directly on those materials (and people eating them eventually, but that would be a edge case).