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Over half of Covid hospitalisations tested positive after admission

telegraph.co.uk

191–200 of 241 posts

Re: Over half of Covid hospitalisations tested positive after admission

#191
post #81

I am weary of this newspaper's reporting - they wage a continual war on the NHS, and they seem to have some writers paid to continually put out negative news on the NHS. Two points: 1. COVID-19 is the most thrombogenic infectious disease known to man. It likely has a serious impact on co-morbidities in a way that hasn't been clearly studied yet. This means it's likely to exacerbate current conditions. 2. Hospitals ar…

I think you're reversing cause and effect. The NHS constantly generates a flow of negative news that other outlets mostly suppress. The Telegraph does this less so than others, so it may appear to be "waging a war" on it but in reality it's just showing what others would have you not know.

Re: Over half of Covid hospitalisations tested positive after admission

#192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that the background for this is that Kary Mullis believed AIDS wasn’t caused by HIV and was therefore angry at Fauci and the entire medical/scientific establishment for linking HIV and AIDS. He died in 2019 so his criticisms of Fauci were related to HIV, not SARS-CoV-2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kary_Mullis#Views_on_HIV/AIDS_...

Last year I discovered this fact about Mullis and became very curious about how such an eminent scientist could have believed that about AIDS. But, I'd also realized by then that a lot of the so-called "science" about COVID was nonsense and based on invalid methodologies, that often scientists knew their results were wrong but published them anyway, and the whole system seemed hopelessly corrupted by bad incentives.…

I'm no expert, but it seems that the dramatic successes since 1996 in treating and preventing AIDS using antiretroviral drugs to suppress HIV viral load would be a pretty solid debunking.

Re: Over half of Covid hospitalisations tested positive after admission

#193
post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last year I discovered this fact about Mullis and became very curious about how such an eminent scientist could have believed that about AIDS. But, I'd also realized by then that a lot of the so-called "science" about COVID was nonsense and based on invalid methodologies, that often scientists knew their results were wrong but published them anyway, and the whole system seemed hopelessly corrupted by bad incentives.…

I'm no expert, but it seems that the dramatic successes since 1996 in treating and preventing AIDS using antiretroviral drugs to suppress HIV viral load would be a pretty solid debunking.

It's probably just worth reading the book as I have only summarized a tiny fraction of it, and I suspect any debate about the topic could end up as just re-writing the book in forum comments. Obviously Duesberg discusses the history of AIDS treatments. Indeed it doesn't discuss treatment history after the book was written, but it makes a convincing case that the AIDS treatments that did exist up to that point were fraudulent in various ways and being presented as successful whilst actually killing patients (this is the justification for the book, in fact).

If I recall correctly, the gist of his argument is like this:

1. When AIDS was new scientists confidently predicted that everyone who caught HIV would die within a year or so. But then people who were HIV+ kept living longer than a year. Rather than treat this as evidence against the link, 'the science' as we call it these days kept being retroactively changed to stretch the supposed incubation period of HIV. This kept going until HIV was claimed to be able to hide non-active for a decade or more.

2. At some point AZT and other anti-retrovirals were developed. These were extremely toxic treatments because they work by stopping cells dividing. They're more like a form of chemotherapy. The drug trials didn't follow the rules of good trials and became hopelessly corrupted, e.g. patients were able to unblind themselves as to whether they were in the placebo group or not and then started trading with others who weren't. They had been told they were guaranteed to die without treatment, so obviously everyone in the process was highly incentivized to get their hands on this supposed miracle drug via fair means or foul. There were many other problems with the trials but that's the one I remember.

3. Not surprisingly given the nature of AZT, people put on it frequently ended up dead even though they hadn't previously been sick. This was interpreted as a failure of the treatment to treat the finally appearing AIDS, rather than the treatment itself killing the patient. The picture was muddied by admissions that of course this therapy had extreme side effects, but it was justified by the guarantee of death that came with HIV.

4. Nonetheless, they kept decreasing the dosages and mixing it with other drugs to reduce the toxicity of the treatments. This was then written up as improvements in the treatment. Duisberg argues they merely kept making a treatment known to be toxic less so. Because (in his theory) HIV wasn't killing the people in the first place, this then led to improving life outcomes which were interpreted as a success for medicine.

5. At this point the HIV/AIDS theory became unfalsifiable. Because HIV was claimed to be a special virus that might kill you very quickly, or might wait decades to do so, everyone with it was given treatment. If they survived a long time, the treatment was the cause. If they died, HIV was the cause. Regardless of what happened the data was interpreted in such a way as to reinforce the theory. Any evidence that disagreed with it was swept under the carpet or fixed via redefinitions, like the addition of HIV positivity to the required symptoms list for AIDS that I previously mentioned.

If you'd like more background then this article by a former science journalist who worked at the Sunday Times might be interesting. At first he believed what he was being told about AIDS, but eventually decided he was being misled and came to feel guilty about his role in promoting AIDS hysteria. He wrote about his experiences here:

https://dailysceptic.org/immunity-hysteria/

https://dailysceptic.org/new-variant/

Re: Over half of Covid hospitalisations tested positive after admission

#194

hmmm is this a new variant? or have they got bad testing processes outside of hospitals? So many things this might be...

The vaccine is rendering infected people asymptomatic. So they never think to get tested because they don't feel sick. Then they break their leg, go to hospital, get tested as a matter of course, and now get counted as someone hospitalized with COVID. Or they feel vaguely sick, it feels like a flu (due to delta having more cold-like rather than covid-like symptoms) and go to the hospital without getting tested for CO…

>The vaccine is rendering infected people asymptomatic.

woo didn't think of that. that would be not so great if still infectious.

Re: Over half of Covid hospitalisations tested positive after admission

#195
post #185

Great journalism at work here! So - the expectation is that people with symptoms of Covid19 would be tested before being hospitalized? I am actually impressed that 44% were. It would be standard operating procedure for an hospital receiving a patient showing symptoms to give a test. In fact 88% received the test results within two days of hospitalization. I am still waiting for an explanation of ICU occupancy [0] if…

The problem is, even if they were asymptomatic and released from hospital e.g for their broken leg, they would still go in statistics as "This person was hospitalised for COVID-19".

You didn't read the article, did you now? The numbers say - according to the article itself - that of the patients hospitalized and diagnosed with Covid 44% had a positive test before being admitted - 43% had a positive test within 2 days and the remaining 13% tested positive within 2 weeks [they don't mention the distribution].

What I find repulsive about this article is that they never say 'someone with a broken leg was counted as a Covid case after the mandatory testing' - they just dance around it, make innuendos and let third parties dance closer to it.

Nowhere in the article they state 'asymptomatic cases with an other unrelated diagnosis were counted as Covid cases' - and I am guessing they don't because the don't have the numbers to prove it.

A real journalist would track down the cases - would try and find the 'I went in with a broken leg and was released with a Covid diagnosis', get the discharging papers and write about it.

Now: if there were really so many cases of people hospitalized with a different diagnosis and attributed to Covid to 'jack up the numbers' - where are they? Where are the articles about it?

Until you have these, please: go back to your little green field to play with your friends - the adults are trying to have a conversation here.

Re: Over half of Covid hospitalisations tested positive after admission

#196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you inflate infections, you are therefore are also inflating deaths, it's a 1 to X correlation.

Wrong, all-cause death statistics are tracked separately from infections. See for instance https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm

How does reporting things that have nothing to do with covid separately have anything to do with it?

Cause of illness is linked to cause of death and they will track proportionally.

Re: Over half of Covid hospitalisations tested positive after admission

#197
Wow - I was re-reading the article, and it jumped on my face:

"The breakdown of daily Covid hospital diagnoses shows that of more than 780 hospitalizations dated last Thursday...with 13 per cent made in the days and weeks that followed"

Can we say that 13% was definitely tested in "days" not "weeks" since last Thursday?

So their:

"Experts said the high number of cases being detected belatedly – at a time when PCR tests were widely available – suggested many such patients had been admitted for other reasons."

At worst would indicate 13% misdiagnosed Covid cases, with the word "belatedly" doing a lot of lifting.

I thought this article was bad - but the more I read it the more it looks like a pile of journalistic manure.

Re: Over half of Covid hospitalisations tested positive after admission

#198
post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm no expert, but it seems that the dramatic successes since 1996 in treating and preventing AIDS using antiretroviral drugs to suppress HIV viral load would be a pretty solid debunking.

It's probably just worth reading the book as I have only summarized a tiny fraction of it, and I suspect any debate about the topic could end up as just re-writing the book in forum comments. Obviously Duesberg discusses the history of AIDS treatments. Indeed it doesn't discuss treatment history after the book was written, but it makes a convincing case that the AIDS treatments that did exist up to that point were fr…

Seems weird to me. My brother in law literally works with HIV every day in a biology lab. There are thousands of academics who do the same. Why would they bother if it was just some random virus?

I can't really speak to the arguments you've presented. Frankly, they seem totally explicable for any number of reasons, but it's not my field. My feeling is simply that tons of people who work in the field believe that HIV causes AIDS (it also totally makes sense to me you could have an immune deficiency without some specific virus, but whatever). So I believe it. If tomorrow, it's discovered not to be the case, I'll probably believe that too. It's not my field, so why would I have a strong opinion? What's the point of even reading a book about it, unless you're working in microbiology?

Re: Over half of Covid hospitalisations tested positive after admission

#199
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand that. But I would hardly call it sensationalizing. It's a mixture of the best of what we had at the time (others have posted talking about how the tests have changed/improved), and the fact that reporting on things in a simple and straight forward manner is hard because people simply don't have the time, or don't give a shit about nuance.

I suspect that a pattern of not disclosing that statistics that are implied to be factual are actually to some degree ~estimates contributed to the extreme level of polarization over "facts" and "the science", as well as the increasing distrust of the media. Sure, most people don't consider these things too logically, but then if those distributing the facts can't be bothered either, how shall we accurately assign bl…

Whose to blame for 60,000 people dying in Vietnam?

Whose to blame for Lobotomies winning the Nobel Prize?

Whose to blame for Thalidomide being widely distributed?

Almost anything can be passed off as legitimate without accountability with a concerted effort by 'authorities' and the 'news media', it's even worse in the modern short attention span news cycle.

Re: Over half of Covid hospitalisations tested positive after admission

#200
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have looked and I cannot even find how increasing CT values affect the false positive rate for the PCR testing. If my understanding is correct a single increment of CT essentially doubles the sensitivity of the test, so difference between CT value of 35 and 40 is 32 fold. I have never used this particular set of primers, but have done a lot of PCR. In general, at 30+ cycles, PCR is prone to spurious amplification…

It is worth noting here, as you didn't say it explicitly, that COVID labs routinely report positives as late as 40 cycles.

This link was often cited by fact checkers last year.

“Most tests, like the Broad Institute test used by MIT, use a 40-cycle protocol. If the virus isn’t detected within 40 amplification cycles, the test result is negative. If viral RNA is detected in 40 cycles or less, the PCR machine stops running, and the test is positive. Because you received a positive result, we know that the test detected the virus in your sample by the time it reached its 40-cycle limit.”

https://medical.mit.edu/covid-19-updates/2020/11/pcr-test-re...

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