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Peter the Great’s Beard Tax

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Re: Peter the Great’s Beard Tax

#121

Post by krzyk »

soperj wrote: post #100
graeme wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can’t look at those numbers without comparing to other societies. Raising literacy over that time period….is not especially rare? Nor was industrialization. You’re giving them credit for something basically every european country did in that timeframe. And many other countries besides. Not strictly saying you’re wrong. I haven’t done the comparative argument so it’s possible they did have a comparative advantage…

Most european countries were already industrialized by the 1920s. None of them had literacy rates that low, and not one of them made it to space.

Not that impressive if you consider population and vast, really vast amounts of land that have gigantic natural resources and lack of any real power blocking them from the east.

Basically with that base anyone could do it (I don't dispute that having a gun pointed at your and your family head wasn't mobilizing for scientists, but that's normal for authoritarian states).

Re: Peter the Great’s Beard Tax

#122

Post by krzyk »

c-smile wrote: post #48
nIHOPp6MQw0f5ut wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The west industrialized without gulags.

Oh, really? What about plantations? Who worked there? Sigh, under each stone of European squares you can find 1kg of gold that came from the "third world".

OK, so which West countries had plantations? Did Germany have them? Yeah, first ones in 1884 and lost all of them in 1914. And it was most industrialized country.

Re: Peter the Great’s Beard Tax

#123

Post by mensetmanusman »

dotcommand wrote: post #84
nIHOPp6MQw0f5ut wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The west industrialized without gulags.

No. We just exterminated countless indigenuous peoples/nations and stole their land. Not to mention stealing resources/capital from china, india, middle east, africa, etc plunging much of the world into unimaginable poverty from which many still haven't recovered. Nothing as terrible as the gulags...

Are you comparing ‘tent cities’ to the gulags?

Re: Peter the Great’s Beard Tax

#124

Post by nIHOPp6MQw0f5ut »

c-smile wrote: post #48
nIHOPp6MQw0f5ut wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The west industrialized without gulags.

Oh, really? What about plantations? Who worked there? Sigh, under each stone of European squares you can find 1kg of gold that came from the "third world".

I guess you're talking about America. There is a reason why the slave based economy of the South was much less developed than the North.

Re: Peter the Great’s Beard Tax

#125

Post by soperj »

krzyk wrote: post #121
soperj wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most european countries were already industrialized by the 1920s. None of them had literacy rates that low, and not one of them made it to space.

Not that impressive if you consider population and vast, really vast amounts of land that have gigantic natural resources and lack of any real power blocking them from the east. Basically with that base anyone could do it (I don't dispute that having a gun pointed at your and your family head wasn't mobilizing for scientists, but that's normal for authoritarian states).

Why hasn't India then?

Re: Peter the Great’s Beard Tax

#126

Post by soperj »

graeme wrote: post #119
soperj wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most european countries were already industrialized by the 1920s. None of them had literacy rates that low, and not one of them made it to space.

What about comparable countries then? Russia looks pretty similar to other country trends here: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/cross-country-literacy-ra... In particular try Italy and Spain, countries with many peasants circa 1900. Virtually identical trajectories. The USSR, if around today, would have a population of 300 million. They were a superpower. Only large powers made it to space. It was certainly impres…

They became a super power. The certainly weren't after WW1. Why didn't the Ottoman empire do this?

Re: Peter the Great’s Beard Tax

#127

Post by soperj »

krzyk wrote: post #122
c-smile wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, really? What about plantations? Who worked there? Sigh, under each stone of European squares you can find 1kg of gold that came from the "third world".

OK, so which West countries had plantations? Did Germany have them? Yeah, first ones in 1884 and lost all of them in 1914. And it was most industrialized country.

Unification into the German Empire didn't happen until 1871. The parts that were industrialized were part of France. Germany itself didn't undergo a massive industrialization until a century after Britain.

Re: Peter the Great’s Beard Tax

#128

Post by soperj »

988747 wrote: post #22
soperj wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you take an objective look at the USSR from 1917 to 1990, while there was a lot of bad things, they also completely industrialized the country, literacy rates went from 28% to 99.7% (triple it in the first 15 years, by trying to teach everyone to read their native language first instead of Russian first). They were the first country to put a man in space. I'm not sure that it was all disastrous.

You must ask yourself a question here: did they accomplish all of that because of the socialism, or despite it?

If I hadn't asked myself this already, I wouldn't have posted it.

Re: Peter the Great’s Beard Tax

#129

Post by etc-hosts »

rolleiflex wrote: post #118
johnthewise wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There seems to be two popular candidates at the moment, Yavas(Mayor of Ankara) and Imamoglu. Imamoglu looks to be more ambitious, thus it is likely he will run for presidency. All the current polls suggest either of them could win against Erdogan if the opposition can form an united front. It is easier than it would be in a parliamentary system, since if no candidate secures over fifty percent of the votes in the fir…

I don’t like Erdogan as much as the next guy, but the claims of a ‘corrupt’ judiciary and ‘paramilitary’ organisations are big accusations that need extraordinary evidence.

Search for Erdogan and "grey wolves"

Re: Peter the Great’s Beard Tax

#130

Post by etc-hosts »

rexreed wrote: post #77

Let's not pretend that there wasn't serious, and at times deadly, anti-semitic overtones to the requirement to shave beards, and the financial penalties that came from seeking exemption. The Beard Tax was notoriously leveraged against religious jews, forbidden by law to shave their beards. The "civilized" authorities took much advantage of this.

My understanding is the beard tax was in part a dig at the authority of the Orthodox Church.

Jews in Russian Empire at that time would mostly be in Pale Of Settlement area, not Petersburg.

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