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No-code startup Bubble raises $100M

reuters.com

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Re: No-code startup Bubble raises $100M

#41

Post by monkpit »

eljimmy wrote: post #37

I had to use this for a client project once (per their request) a few years ago and as a developer it was an absolute nightmare. But I guess it's not meant for developers... There were so many quirks and limitations that I wouldn't ever recommend it to anyone. It's to app development what Macromedia Dreamweaver was to web development back in the day, except worse because you can't edit the code. I don't want to be ov…

I used to get ads for Bubble on Facebook, the ad comments were always fun to read through...

Re: No-code startup Bubble raises $100M

#42

Post by jimmy2020 »

deeviant wrote: post #10

I think the biggest problem with this approach is at some point, they necessarily reach a level of complexity that it takes the same amount of time to learn how to use their "no-code" tools than it does to just learn how to code.

reading your comment and thinking of Wix

Re: No-code startup Bubble raises $100M

#43

Post by zkldi »

nexuist wrote: post #23
ipnon wrote: post #4

What's the next 10x technological innovation for no code? What would it take to remove programming from web development? Bubble seems excellent, but it is in a competitive field.

Declarative goal based development. You type in English what you want the application to do, and some developer tool generates thousands of variants (maybe through a genetic algorithm?) until you reach a design and functionality you're comfortable shipping. At a certain point we should be able to declaratively describe entire businesses, and have the computer work with vendors and other people online to carry out bus…

> Declarative goal based development. You type in English what you want the application to do,

Isn't that just code?

I'm convinced that for sufficiently complex "no-code" solutions, you just end up with a poor mans programming language.

Re: No-code startup Bubble raises $100M

#44

Post by rattray »

deeviant wrote: post #10

I think the biggest problem with this approach is at some point, they necessarily reach a level of complexity that it takes the same amount of time to learn how to use their "no-code" tools than it does to just learn how to code.

I'd be curious to hear from someone who's built a truly complicated app with bubble (equivalent of >50k loc not just crud).

I can't think of a reason it'd be impossible to build a no-code app that scales as well as code, and I don't have evidence that Bubble has failed.

Re: No-code startup Bubble raises $100M

#45

Post by darepublic »

If Bubble is not a bubble, a coder should be able to sit down and figure things out intuitively and start getting better results than they would busting out create-react-app, or their java spring framework backend. Wait, that's not that unbelievable!

Re: No-code startup Bubble raises $100M

#46

Post by wyldfire »

Is Excel 'code'? If you answered 'No' considering cell formula expressions like cell references and arithmetic, does your answer change if you use functions? Flow control?

Automata are automata. But, ok, sure, I get it. That's too abstract for the intended consumer. So what we are selling as 'no-code' is something that can allow you to preserve your identity as not-a-coder. Hmm. Scratch seems to be the language that strikes me as something you could sell as 'not code'.

I've thought lately that 'Everyone Should Code' concepts didn't make sense. But maybe it does make sense -- if everyone uses computers to get their work done anyways, the "Here is how you can leverage your interaction with the computer to get your work done better/faster."

Re: No-code startup Bubble raises $100M

#47

Post by mimixco »

Ah, good ole CASE. It's back like mold every few years and this year it's hot and humid.

There are no video demos on their site for one simple reason: when you do find one on the YouTubes you'll see that it is very much programming. If you can create correct CRUD by dragging around "dynamic expressions" (yes, they're really called that), you could write them in TS.

As frosting on the cake, they offer gig workers to no-code for you! My father would make a comment here about wiping one's own ass.

Re: No-code startup Bubble raises $100M

#48

Post by mrspeaker »

deeviant wrote: post #10

I think the biggest problem with this approach is at some point, they necessarily reach a level of complexity that it takes the same amount of time to learn how to use their "no-code" tools than it does to just learn how to code.

It works best for prototyping and rapidly testing ideas.

I joined a startup that didn't have any deep coding skills - but had a great idea and vision for a product. They had made a pretty decent prototype with Bubble and could quickly implement suggestions from the beta testers.

When I joined I instantly suggested re-writing it in a "real" stack. But when I dived into it, there was a lot of built in features of Bubble they were using that would be a pain to write or integrate. The rewrite would take some time.

Instead we launched with the Bubble app as it was. It targeted a niche market, and that market came flooding in - it really proved there was demand for the product and the feedback helped shape the end result - months ahead of where would have been if I re-wrote it.

But as the app grew we ended up with "spaghetti no-code", slow loading times, crazy hacks, giant bundles (that we had no control over)... but again, it was good enough to launch with and validate the company, and it was fast to try out ideas.

We eventually did a full rewrite once we were happy with the overall structure of the app, but the process changed my perspective on the value of no-code tools in the right hands.

Re: No-code startup Bubble raises $100M

#49

Post by jimmy2020 »

I am not expecting developers to welcome the new "No-code" movement. But eventually, it will happen. An app that's capable of building itself, supposed to be the next generation of building apps. Take a look at web development. It's revolutionary and changing fast. Users have more power than anytime before. More flexibility is being added every day with the rising of third parties services that make development faster and more reliable than ever. The question should be about complexity. How to manage the "no-code" complexity. Is it better for the user or it will add a new burden of learning? Does the no-code mean a special team to learn how to build without coding. Is it cheap, or hiring a specialist is better when it comes to fixing bugs and shipping new features.

Re: No-code startup Bubble raises $100M

#50

Post by _carbyau_ »

brundolf wrote: post #30
deeviant wrote: post #10

I think the biggest problem with this approach is at some point, they necessarily reach a level of complexity that it takes the same amount of time to learn how to use their "no-code" tools than it does to just learn how to code.

I wonder if a more useful category would be "just-code". I.e., even today you have to know quite a bit of auxiliary stuff about computers, your environment, tooling, networking, to realistically contribute to a real codebase (much less start one from scratch!). I think this is the real unnecessary barrier. Logic doesn't go away, but plenty of smart people can do logic who don't want to learn esoterica about fixing th…

I have seen simple things in Open Source Programs that I know I could track down and fix. Off by one errors, modulus stuff and such.

Do open source projects have an obvious "run this script to configure your complete dev environment in respect to this project" ?

I would be happy to spin up a new VM for every project on that basis.

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