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United States sells Wu-Tang album forfeited by Martin Shkreli

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Re: United States sells Wu-Tang album forfeited by Martin Shkreli

#41

Post by defaultname »

philwelch wrote: post #28
defaultname wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He committed pretty egregious financial crimes. They didn't have to "dig" far. People do understand that most people aren't hiding major felonies or securities fraud, right? Most of us aren't evading taxes. We aren't running ponzi schemes. We aren't defrauding lenders. You can scrutinize the situation of the vast majority of people and come up with nothing beyond maybe a tag taken off a mattress (har). Somehow in the…

It's surprisingly easy to commit a federal offense: https://twitter.com/CrimeADay

There's always a logical fallacy in this sort of argument-

a) There are loads of extremely specific laws for various very specific problems. e.g. Taking obsidian from an obsidian flow federal park, for instance.

b) Ergo everyone commits crimes!. We're all criminals, they just selectively choose what to enforce!

b) doesn't follow at all. The vast majority of people will never even be in a situation where it was possible to commit the overwhelming bulk of laws on the book. And that never would regardless.

FWIW, criminals think everyone is a criminal. Tax evaders think it's just normal. Thieves think everyone steals. Etc.

Re: United States sells Wu-Tang album forfeited by Martin Shkreli

#42

Post by kgantchev »

defaultname wrote: post #18
kgantchev wrote: post #3

I love how the government dug through the guy's entire life just to find something they could nab him on and straight up destroyed him. That's some G stuff!

He committed pretty egregious financial crimes. They didn't have to "dig" far. People do understand that most people aren't hiding major felonies or securities fraud, right? Most of us aren't evading taxes. We aren't running ponzi schemes. We aren't defrauding lenders. You can scrutinize the situation of the vast majority of people and come up with nothing beyond maybe a tag taken off a mattress (har). Somehow in the…

The "financial crimes" seem to have no victims since none of his investors actually sued him. If he really defrauded them, as the government claims in their successful lawsuit and conviction, then I'm pretty sure they would have sued him also. Why haven't his allegedly defrauded investors sued him?

BTW, let me quote one of his investors, Lindsay Rosenwald:

Rosenwald testified that in 2012, Shkreli told him he was winding down MSMB Capital. And Shkreli offered Rosenwald the opportunity to roll over what Shkreli purported was by then Rosenwald’s $200,000 stake in MSMB Capital into Retrophin, a new drug company he was creating.

"I was given the option of taking the cash or taking the stock, I wanted the cash, I didn’t get the cash.”

Rosenwald testified that he later, over time, sold off his shares of Retrophin. He said that, taking into account his original stake of $100,000 in MSMB Capital, he did make a profit on those stock sales.

Asked how much, Rosenwald said, “Somewhere between $400,000 and $600,000, I think.”[1]

Another investor "realized a profit of almost $1.3 million after selling Retrophin shares it had acquired as a result of a $125,000 initial investment by that fund, Hassan testified."[2]

In short, Shkreli did lie to his investors because he lost their money in the failed hedge fund. However, when he made another business, he rolled their accounts into shares of that business which actually made them a pretty sizable profit.

I guess in this Cancel Culture era, the pious feel justified in the destruction of anybody they don't like.

[1] https://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/06/martin-shkreli-kept-hedge-fu... [2] https://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/29/investor-in-martin-shkreli-f...

Re: United States sells Wu-Tang album forfeited by Martin Shkreli

#43

Post by happytoexplain »

nprz wrote: post #35
hereforphone wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never threaten a Clinton (I anticipate downvotes.. and they'll be reinforcing my position that they're off-limits)

This is getting downvotes, but it is true Shkreli got his bail revoked for offering $5000 for every strand of hair collected from HRC.

You use the word "but", which implies some kind of inverse relationship between your clauses, but I don't see anything to indicate that.

Re: United States sells Wu-Tang album forfeited by Martin Shkreli

#44

Post by rchaud »

titzer wrote: post #19
kgantchev wrote: post #3

I love how the government dug through the guy's entire life just to find something they could nab him on and straight up destroyed him. That's some G stuff!

It'd be great if the government more regularly caught, prosecuted, and convicted people at this level of criminality. Otherwise the entire society collapses under the weight of abject corruption, because prosecution is a selective enforcement tool used at the whim of corrupt politicians, rather than an automatic mechanism that operates independently.

There is no automatic mechanism that operates independently. The prosecution, defense and judiciary are not GPT-3 robots that can mine through centuries of case law in 2 seconds to achieve a perfectly balanced decision.

If you want regular prosecution of white-collar crimes, you may want to support better funding for these agencies, so they can actually put resources behind investigating and trying cases where criminality occurs.

Re: United States sells Wu-Tang album forfeited by Martin Shkreli

#45

Post by happytoexplain »

anoonmoose wrote: post #30
hereforphone wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never threaten a Clinton (I anticipate downvotes.. and they'll be reinforcing my position that they're off-limits)

I, like many people, downvote anything that says something of the nature "I anticipate downvotes", lest you think I downvoted for political reasons

Indeed. It's the purest form of the self-fulfilling prophecy.

Re: United States sells Wu-Tang album forfeited by Martin Shkreli

#46

Post by theandrewbailey »

kelnos wrote: post #14
kgantchev wrote: post #3

I love how the government dug through the guy's entire life just to find something they could nab him on and straight up destroyed him. That's some G stuff!

As much as this guy may deserve it, I don't think we should be celebrating the idea that if the government has an axe to grind with you, they'll find a way to destroy your life.

This is one reason why government should be as small and do as little as possible.

Re: United States sells Wu-Tang album forfeited by Martin Shkreli

#47

Post by sixothree »

titzer wrote: post #19
kgantchev wrote: post #3

I love how the government dug through the guy's entire life just to find something they could nab him on and straight up destroyed him. That's some G stuff!

It'd be great if the government more regularly caught, prosecuted, and convicted people at this level of criminality. Otherwise the entire society collapses under the weight of abject corruption, because prosecution is a selective enforcement tool used at the whim of corrupt politicians, rather than an automatic mechanism that operates independently.

I have a strange opinion that it should be a lot easier to send people to jail and that more people should spend time in jail for real crimes. Ex. First time DWI - straight to jail. None of this "I'm rich and important" or "it's only my first time".

But also that jail time should be short and absolutely not destroy lives. This whole "lottery" thing that jail has become is completely absurd. One person who does zero jail time for a crime while another person has their life destroyed for the same crime.

If we start apply punishment equally without any question then maybe we can get some laws changed.

Re: United States sells Wu-Tang album forfeited by Martin Shkreli

#48

Post by happytoexplain »

hereforphone wrote: post #34
cool_dude85 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's more likely - Chelsea's hacker news goon squad is here to brigade you, or nobody is interested in reheated Rush Limbaugh mid 90s slop?

Are you aware of the drama between Shkreli and Hillary that I was referring to?

The fact of a thing doesn't imply causality, and if causality is evident in this case, it still doesn't provide a license for glib sarcasm.

Re: United States sells Wu-Tang album forfeited by Martin Shkreli

#49

Post by kgantchev »

kelnos wrote: post #14
kgantchev wrote: post #3

I love how the government dug through the guy's entire life just to find something they could nab him on and straight up destroyed him. That's some G stuff!

As much as this guy may deserve it, I don't think we should be celebrating the idea that if the government has an axe to grind with you, they'll find a way to destroy your life.

Can one not be simultaneously repulsed and mesmerized by the government's ability to murk somebody that they don't like?!

Re: United States sells Wu-Tang album forfeited by Martin Shkreli

#50

Post by Joeboy »

anoonmoose wrote: post #30
hereforphone wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never threaten a Clinton (I anticipate downvotes.. and they'll be reinforcing my position that they're off-limits)

I, like many people, downvote anything that says something of the nature "I anticipate downvotes", lest you think I downvoted for political reasons

I think "I anticipate downvotes" is fine. "If you downvote me I will lean harder into my position" is basically blackmail (admittedly lame and ineffective blackmail), which is why I downvoted it.
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