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Father builds exoskeleton to help wheelchair-bound son walk

reuters.com

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Re: Father builds exoskeleton to help wheelchair-bound son walk

#51

Post by vosper »

AutumnCurtain wrote: post #38
michaelt wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What sort of power sources do current powered exoskeletons use, and what sort of runtimes do you get? That's where I'd foresee the limitations - that you'd end up hefting 80 lbs of battery for 20 minutes of operation.

I haven't been in the industry for a little bit, so I'm sure the tech has evolved, but the versions we evaluated used battery hot-swapping to extend use time. I honestly don't recall how long a single battery ran for. We primarily evaluated them for use for loads that were too light or unwieldy to necessitate a vehicle but which were too heavy for a human worker to regularly lift without risk of injury (so the 75-200…

So it needs power to move the weight of the human, plus 75-200lb? I’m wondering if an exoskeleton that’s only for moving a person about might have a lower power requirement or longer battery life?

Re: Father builds exoskeleton to help wheelchair-bound son walk

#52

Post by justinclift »

ad404b8a372f2b9 wrote: post #3

I've been making my own, purely as a pipe-dream to have some hope of walking again, it's not easy but I'm hoping it'll be a better fit than consumer ones, and probably cheaper. I feel like we've made leaps and bounds in prosthetics this past decade but orthotics and exoskeletons haven't been following the trend for some reason. As an engineer I imagine there are some significant design constraints that make it hard b…

What's the control method you've been using? eg for input to direct the actions

Re: Father builds exoskeleton to help wheelchair-bound son walk

#53

Post by devwastaken »

the_lonely_road wrote: post #31
ad404b8a372f2b9 wrote: post #3

I've been making my own, purely as a pipe-dream to have some hope of walking again, it's not easy but I'm hoping it'll be a better fit than consumer ones, and probably cheaper. I feel like we've made leaps and bounds in prosthetics this past decade but orthotics and exoskeletons haven't been following the trend for some reason. As an engineer I imagine there are some significant design constraints that make it hard b…

My understanding is its the same thing limiting everything else. Power. Batteries more specifically. We just don't have a way to power anything for very long that doesn't have a cable attached to a wall attached to a power station. Honestly the ability for humans (and other living creatures) to just DO SO MUCH on just a little bio mass each day is astounding.

Don't forget patents. You yourself can create whatever you want, but the second you want to sell it you have to have a patent law firm scour over everything, pay dozens of companies, get rejected by others, and end up having to entirely redesign your product in an inefficient manner because some dipstick owns a patent they just sit on.

If we abolish patents innovation will finally be possible.

Re: Father builds exoskeleton to help wheelchair-bound son walk

#54

Post by capekwasright »

samstave wrote: post #17

One of my favorite movies "Edge of Tomorrow" has dope exoskeletons, and while its a movie - thats where this is heading... I am surprised Boston Dynamics hasnt made one! If you converted the agility of Atlas into an exoskeleton, that would be pretty interesting...

They actually did, as part of DARPA's Warrior Web program [1]. They ultimately spun off the program to Ekso Bionics as a consequence of the Google acquisition back in 2014 [2].

[1] https://www.army.mil/article/125315/darpas_warrior_web_proje... (the first image is of BD's system; you can just make out "BOST" around the center of the left thigh)

[2] https://www.globenewswire.com/fr/news-release/2014/10/02/670...

Re: Father builds exoskeleton to help wheelchair-bound son walk

#55

Post by zeteo »

modeless wrote: post #46
AutumnCurtain wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked in a logistics operation that explored exoskeleton options deeply in 2019. Options were shockingly limited and the best products were not powered in any way - essentially just frames to bolster your body mechanically. Compare to the massive, extremely precise, and power-efficient automated storage and retrieval systems and it just seemed like stone age tech. My takeaway was that powered exoskeleton tech must…

One issue is safety. A powered exoskeleton with any significant fraction of a human's full strength necessarily has the power to maim people including the operator. A robot can just be put in a cage where it can't hurt people, but an exoskeleton can't.

> A robot can just be put in a cage where it can't hurt people, but an exoskeleton can't.

This would have made a great premise for an Asimov story.

Re: Father builds exoskeleton to help wheelchair-bound son walk

#56

Post by justinclift »

nanodeath wrote: post #48
samstave wrote: post #17

One of my favorite movies "Edge of Tomorrow" has dope exoskeletons, and while its a movie - thats where this is heading... I am surprised Boston Dynamics hasnt made one! If you converted the agility of Atlas into an exoskeleton, that would be pretty interesting...

Similarly I thought of Death Stranding :) Though I guess exoskeletons are not uncommon in sci-fi.

Tried that game out, but found it to be realllllllllly tedious. eg initial missions took walking, while carrying some person's body over the shoulder, for "miles". Urk.

Did it get better after those early missions?

Re: Father builds exoskeleton to help wheelchair-bound son walk

#57

Post by ad404b8a372f2b9 »

the_lonely_road wrote: post #31
ad404b8a372f2b9 wrote: post #3

I've been making my own, purely as a pipe-dream to have some hope of walking again, it's not easy but I'm hoping it'll be a better fit than consumer ones, and probably cheaper. I feel like we've made leaps and bounds in prosthetics this past decade but orthotics and exoskeletons haven't been following the trend for some reason. As an engineer I imagine there are some significant design constraints that make it hard b…

My understanding is its the same thing limiting everything else. Power. Batteries more specifically. We just don't have a way to power anything for very long that doesn't have a cable attached to a wall attached to a power station. Honestly the ability for humans (and other living creatures) to just DO SO MUCH on just a little bio mass each day is astounding.

I imagine it's part of it, but even when you look at unpowered devices there seems to have been shockingly little innovation when you compare what was available in the 1800s and today. It's still a few flatbars with leather/velcro fasteners, the main improvement has been with materials like carbon fiber to lower the weight but that's about it. There's some interesting patents like air cushions to improve fit and some weight redistribution mechanisms but nothing available for the consumer.

Re: Father builds exoskeleton to help wheelchair-bound son walk

#58

Post by AutumnCurtain »

vosper wrote: post #51
AutumnCurtain wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't been in the industry for a little bit, so I'm sure the tech has evolved, but the versions we evaluated used battery hot-swapping to extend use time. I honestly don't recall how long a single battery ran for. We primarily evaluated them for use for loads that were too light or unwieldy to necessitate a vehicle but which were too heavy for a human worker to regularly lift without risk of injury (so the 75-200…

So it needs power to move the weight of the human, plus 75-200lb? I’m wondering if an exoskeleton that’s only for moving a person about might have a lower power requirement or longer battery life?

The human bears their own weight, so they need to move the exoskeleton + load. These systems are more like braces you stand in with strong frames and motors to augment your natural lifting motions than "waldo"-style full exoskeletons. In that respect they differ from what would be needed to help a fully disabled person stand.

Re: Father builds exoskeleton to help wheelchair-bound son walk

#59

Post by dr_orpheus »

dogorman wrote: post #47
michaelt wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What sort of power sources do current powered exoskeletons use, and what sort of runtimes do you get? That's where I'd foresee the limitations - that you'd end up hefting 80 lbs of battery for 20 minutes of operation.

Might there be merit to a semi-tethered approach? Enough onboard batteries to last a minute or two when you walk to another room, where you promptly plug in again?

Semi-tethered approach would probably be good for being able to use around the house. And I think this would be consistent with other medical equipment. Some people who require oxygen often have a very large oxygen machine at home with a long cord so they can move around the house, but have to carry portable machines when they are not home.

The portable exoskeleton is a pretty big leap though. I think in order to have it be useful anywhere else but at home it would need to be significantly longer on the order of hours. I'm thinking time it takes from getting out of a car to go in to a shop and run an errand and come back (perhaps extra battery packs in the car or a place to recharge from the car)

Re: Father builds exoskeleton to help wheelchair-bound son walk

#60

Post by brodouevencode »

smoldesu wrote: post #32
ad404b8a372f2b9 wrote: post #3

I've been making my own, purely as a pipe-dream to have some hope of walking again, it's not easy but I'm hoping it'll be a better fit than consumer ones, and probably cheaper. I feel like we've made leaps and bounds in prosthetics this past decade but orthotics and exoskeletons haven't been following the trend for some reason. As an engineer I imagine there are some significant design constraints that make it hard b…

My grandpa, who died before I was born, was wheelchair-bound for the second half of his life, and I was told that he handled it well, but internally it took an incredible toll on his body. When he finally passed away, they found that his basement was littered with machinery, engines and pre-cut body panels. Apparently, in the last few years of his life he threw himself into the idea of building his own plane to resto…

It's great that you're using him as a source of inspiration. The power of older role models today has unfortunately been overlooked, but I'm glad you've found it. Keep building.
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