Farmers always worked from home • Hacker News Board

Re: Farmers always worked from home

#81

Post by kvgr » Tue, Jul 27, 2021, 3:31 PM UTC

maweki wrote: post #75

NationalPark wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no mention of all the government assistance in terms of loans, infrastructure, subsidies, welfare programs for employee healthcare and retirement, etc. Maybe if other industries had as many entitlements they would make fodder for disillusioned urban bloggers as well.

"Entitlements" is a strange word for this. The fact is, that farming dairy, cattle, and produce pays so little through the primary market that those people would starve if not for government subsidies. The people who literally prevent every other person on the continent from starving. Farming is hard and pays little.

Well if the subsidies stopped and some farmers quit, then the producers would have to pay more. And farmers would return. I don’t get this constant subsidies to farmers everywhere. We take your taxes and shove it to farmers so you can have cheap corn and get fat. Maybe if some products werent so heavily subsidiest farmers would other, better food.

Re: Farmers always worked from home

#82

Post by akiselev » Tue, Jul 27, 2021, 3:33 PM UTC

maweki wrote: post #75

NationalPark wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no mention of all the government assistance in terms of loans, infrastructure, subsidies, welfare programs for employee healthcare and retirement, etc. Maybe if other industries had as many entitlements they would make fodder for disillusioned urban bloggers as well.

"Entitlements" is a strange word for this. The fact is, that farming dairy, cattle, and produce pays so little through the primary market that those people would starve if not for government subsidies. The people who literally prevent every other person on the continent from starving. Farming is hard and pays little.

"Entitlement" is a term of art [1] that means that the farmers are legally entitled to those benefits.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entitlement

Re: Farmers always worked from home

#83

Post by ericmay » Tue, Jul 27, 2021, 3:34 PM UTC

NationalPark wrote: post #66

spelunker wrote: post #55

This whole article reads like someone out of touch. We went to the countryside to observe the pastoral lifestyle! Hey look at these farmers! They're "working from home" all the time! Wow look at them milking cows! Farming is a hell of a lot of work and they have a poor "work life balance" out of necessity. There's too much to do. Maybe they find it rewarding, but I don't think it's an ideal everyone should be strivin…

There's no mention of all the government assistance in terms of loans, infrastructure, subsidies, welfare programs for employee healthcare and retirement, etc. Maybe if other industries had as many entitlements they would make fodder for disillusioned urban bloggers as well.

Yea you mean subsidies like 401ks, office building tax subsidies, welfare and food stamps for baristas and janitors instead of living wages, subway systems, and people getting stimulus checks to work from home?

Or do you just mean the subsidies for a group you happen to want to make a snide remark about? C'mon. You think Wal-Mart and Starbucks aren't being subsidized by welfare programs so they can keep wages low?

Re: Farmers always worked from home

#84

Post by colmvp » Tue, Jul 27, 2021, 3:35 PM UTC

r3trohack3r wrote: post #22

supermatt wrote: post #17

As a farmer, always working from home, I realise I am exceptionally privileged not to be trapped in a tiny apartment during multi-month covid lockdowns. It must be hard to keep any balance when you are eating, sleeping, working and resting in the same box

This. As a remote software engineer, I empathize with folks who haven’t optimized for their home to be their day-to-day. I couldn’t imagine spendings lockdown in an SF Apartment. I spent lockdown in a 3k sq. foot home. I have a floating desk and a panasonic toughbook (CF-31), spend my days floating in my pool writing code. A similar QoL as before lockdown. Not everyone’s lockdown experience was the same. Lockdown QoL…

Personally I don't find wide sq. footage to be super necessary. My unit is less than a third of your space, and even then on a day-to-day basis I really only use half of that (home office, living room, kitchen).

I grew up in a giant house and spent most of my time in my bedroom / living room.

I will admit it helps to have a nice view and peace and quiet.

Re: Farmers always worked from home

#85

Post by duxup » Tue, Jul 27, 2021, 3:35 PM UTC

retzkek wrote: post #74

duxup wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Commercial" farming is no assurance of stability either.

I was actually leaning the other way: probably easier to scratch out a subsistence living than to try to make a consistent profit.

Oh I get it now, yeah that might true. That's a really interesting question. Lotta factors there.

Re: Farmers always worked from home

#86

Post by andrew_ » Tue, Jul 27, 2021, 3:36 PM UTC

enumjorge wrote: post #23

supermatt wrote: post #17

As a farmer, always working from home, I realise I am exceptionally privileged not to be trapped in a tiny apartment during multi-month covid lockdowns. It must be hard to keep any balance when you are eating, sleeping, working and resting in the same box

You’re the 3rd person to mention being a farmer. Do we have a bunch of farmers on HN? That’s really interesting. What brings you here?

Please see: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27973320

Re: Farmers always worked from home

#87

Post by dragontamer » Tue, Jul 27, 2021, 3:40 PM UTC

snarf21 wrote: post #79

spelunker wrote: post #55

This whole article reads like someone out of touch. We went to the countryside to observe the pastoral lifestyle! Hey look at these farmers! They're "working from home" all the time! Wow look at them milking cows! Farming is a hell of a lot of work and they have a poor "work life balance" out of necessity. There's too much to do. Maybe they find it rewarding, but I don't think it's an ideal everyone should be strivin…

The only people who think farming sounds great are people who have never farmed. Having all your income depend on the weather or random government policies/tariffs is heart breaking. You need tremendous scale to weather the storm. Go watch "Clarkson's Farm" to get a glimpse of the realities. (Remember that he is extremely rich and doesn't even care if the farm loses money.) The only good thing about farming is that y…

I'm no farmer, but you can see the extremely expensive and sophisticated farming machines pretty much every time you drive past a rural area.

Giant watering machines, extremely weird "collector" thingies, and a whole slew of farmers complaining to John Deere about "right to repair".

Modern Farming is about having huge infrastructure so that very few people can create lots and lots of food. Between the fertilizer, the bountiful land, the water, the sophisticated machines, etc. etc.

Also, I had a few teachers who went to the local agriculture university and talked to me about soil types and soil tests. Farmers have to be extremely up-to-date on chemistry, botany and even general biology: you survey your fields by taking chemical tests to determine the nutrients in the soil. You keep careful eyes on your crops at each stage of development: ensuring that they're progressing as expected.

Finally, you also need to be on the lookout for insects and/or animals, who can destroy your crops. But not just insects and animals... but also fungus, bacteria, and viruses. (Plants get sick too, just like humans).

If a plant-virus starts to spread in your farm, you could lose the entire crop. You're pretty much the "Crop Doctor", and need to be able to tell the different kinds of diseases that can come up (is it a fungus? Should you spray fungicides all over your plants? Should you spray insecticides? Should you burn your crops to prevent the spread?)

And despite the miracles of modern nitrogen-based farming... micronutrients in the soil still matter. So you still got that whole crop-rotation thing if you want your soil to rejuvenate between crops.

----------

Soil alone is already a major issue. If you've got too much clay in your soil, you need to find sand and/or compost and mix it into your land. Or you know... sell your land and find better soil.

/not actually a Farmer, but had the pleasure of talking to some...

Re: Farmers always worked from home

#88

Post by manachar » Tue, Jul 27, 2021, 3:40 PM UTC

spelunker wrote: post #55

This whole article reads like someone out of touch. We went to the countryside to observe the pastoral lifestyle! Hey look at these farmers! They're "working from home" all the time! Wow look at them milking cows! Farming is a hell of a lot of work and they have a poor "work life balance" out of necessity. There's too much to do. Maybe they find it rewarding, but I don't think it's an ideal everyone should be strivin…

Depends on the farm and how much hustle the farmer is forced to have to try to make a profit on a commodity profit.

Most modern farms have an insane work load to desperately try to pay the bills making a product that may be worth less on the commodity market than it cost you to grow.

The older style family farm was usually only super busy for relatively brief periods of time (harvest, calving season, etc). There was always work to be done, but you fit the work in to the rhythm of the day and had the family to help.

Oh, you had to get up and milk the cows, collect the eggs, etc, but your total acreage and consumer base was usually small enough that daily work was kept in a manageable balance.

Additionally, I think you're missing the point of the article, which is clearly stated as instead of trying to balance two different lives we need to make our lives whole again and allow what we do for income to be as satisfyingly part of our lives as any other aspects.

This point is... well bluntly a double edged sword.

Like farmers it meant you might have to attend to something in the middle of the night. Or the crunch season has hit so you put off watching the telly or playing a game. But it also means you're close to your family and house and can spend time with them, often even while working.

The article is questioning the relatively new division between our working lives and our personal lives and advocates demolishing that boundary for a more holistic experience. I'm not 100% sold on this, especially for workers who are not owners of their labor (i.e. employees rather than founders-partners). These people will make family of their coworkers only to be laid off at the first economic down turn, or skip out on looking for new employment to better capitalize on their skills because they have built a life at Acme.

Re: Farmers always worked from home

#89

Post by maweki » Tue, Jul 27, 2021, 3:40 PM UTC

kvgr wrote: post #81

maweki wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Entitlements" is a strange word for this. The fact is, that farming dairy, cattle, and produce pays so little through the primary market that those people would starve if not for government subsidies. The people who literally prevent every other person on the continent from starving. Farming is hard and pays little.

Well if the subsidies stopped and some farmers quit, then the producers would have to pay more. And farmers would return. I don’t get this constant subsidies to farmers everywhere. We take your taxes and shove it to farmers so you can have cheap corn and get fat. Maybe if some products werent so heavily subsidiest farmers would other, better food.

Remember that these agricultural feedback cycles are not instant and demand for food is only flexible to a point (if people starving is not a viable option). Removing production capabilities quickly, even with price increases, does not make for fewer mouths to feed.

Re: Farmers always worked from home

#90

Post by chirau » Tue, Jul 27, 2021, 3:41 PM UTC

snarf21 wrote: post #79

spelunker wrote: post #55

This whole article reads like someone out of touch. We went to the countryside to observe the pastoral lifestyle! Hey look at these farmers! They're "working from home" all the time! Wow look at them milking cows! Farming is a hell of a lot of work and they have a poor "work life balance" out of necessity. There's too much to do. Maybe they find it rewarding, but I don't think it's an ideal everyone should be strivin…

The only people who think farming sounds great are people who have never farmed. Having all your income depend on the weather or random government policies/tariffs is heart breaking. You need tremendous scale to weather the storm. Go watch "Clarkson's Farm" to get a glimpse of the realities. (Remember that he is extremely rich and doesn't even care if the farm loses money.) The only good thing about farming is that y…

I have to disagree with you. Or maybe farming is just terrible here in the US because of all the rules and crap with companies like Monsanto.

Where I come from, farming is a pretty fulfilling endeavor. Both my parents left senior corporate roles to pursue farming because they love it so much. Even when they made their first money working, they bought a piece of land and were there pretty much every weekend. They started from working the farm themselves all the way to employing people. They are absolutely happy and have zero regrets about it. This is not an isolated incident either, a number of guys I went to school with have since started farming. It is not as lucrative for some of them as some jobs there were in, but they were very happy to leave their jobs and pursue farming full time. These are folk in South Africa, Australia, Zimbabwe, Ireland and a few other places.

In a lot of countries, you will find that many people work hard in day to day jobs so that they can eventually get a farm, move there and live happily.