I am seeing completely opposite. When comes to web application development I always prefer Chrome but recent M1 changes a lot. Now that safari feels like butter I prefer Safari over Chrome for development.
For developers, Safari is crap and outdated
121–130 of 623 posts
Re: For developers, Safari is crap and outdated
#122Regarding PWA support, I often read you can use PWAs offline. I can not imagine a Website that I would want offline. Can someone please give me an useful example of such an offline Website?
Any website you might access whilst on a train or in other situations with spotty connectivity
Re: For developers, Safari is crap and outdated
#123Regarding PWA support, I often read you can use PWAs offline. I can not imagine a Website that I would want offline. Can someone please give me an useful example of such an offline Website?
I think the idea is not necessarily to make fully offline websites (though some people will), but to provide a more consistent interface akin to native apps.
Most apps you use require network access but you can still interact with them on very slow/broken connection. Meanwhile you try to load a website and it’s a much different experience.
But as for offline apps, I could imagine music/podcast players (where you can save offline media), offline maps, etc.
Re: For developers, Safari is crap and outdated
#124Apple has its own opinions about what web standards it should implement. It’s as simple as that. Google has been extremely successful in convincing developers that browsers that don’t behave like Chrome are behaving wrong. Don’t get me wrong, I wish Safari had more features, fewer bugs, and an evergreen release cycle. It’s clear Apple do not see themselves as competing with Chrome, largely because of iOS, and I do wa…
You’re talking as if the W3C or even Mozilla don’t exist. This isn’t an Apple vs Google thing. This is an Apple vs web standards thing. That’s why Safari is outdated for developers.
For all pratical purposes they don't.
W3C nowadays only retifies standards that are in widespread use, and Firefox is no longer relevant in our browser matrix for deliveries, with a single digit usage.
Re: For developers, Safari is crap and outdated
#125Apple has its own opinions about what web standards it should implement. It’s as simple as that. Google has been extremely successful in convincing developers that browsers that don’t behave like Chrome are behaving wrong. Don’t get me wrong, I wish Safari had more features, fewer bugs, and an evergreen release cycle. It’s clear Apple do not see themselves as competing with Chrome, largely because of iOS, and I do wa…
You’re talking as if the W3C or even Mozilla don’t exist. This isn’t an Apple vs Google thing. This is an Apple vs web standards thing. That’s why Safari is outdated for developers.
This isn’t an Apple vs Google thing. This is an Apple vs web standards thing.
It’s actually and Apple vs. APIs and technologies that allow fingerprinting on the web thing.
Nobody mentions that Mozilla has sided with Apple much of the time to not implement some of these same APIs and technologies.
Re: For developers, Safari is crap and outdated
#126Earlier quoted context omitted.
Lots of sites use WebRTC for video and audio calls. Google Meet, Discord, Slack for example. On desktop it's far more secure to use those in-browser than via desktop apps.
Yeah, and those all suck up my RAM. Color me nonplussed that WebKit doesn't follow in Chromium's footsteps.
The criticism was that "no one uses WebRTC", not that WebRTC was inefficient. Clearly millions of people do use it, so you aren't refuting the point in any way.
Perhaps if Apple had supported WebRTC earlier their engineers could have influenced the way it works to make it better. That's the main problem with ignoring standards in an org the size of Apple - you don't get to contribute to them. I don't mind that Safari runs behind the other browsers because progressive enhancement enables me to deal with that. I do mind that Apple are failing to be a meaningful part of moving the web forwards, and are basically letting Google do whatever they like.
Re: For developers, Safari is crap and outdated
#127Earlier quoted context omitted.
Safari is still the best mobile web browser in terms of performance and usability, and I'm using Firefox on Android, it's great, but Safari is the fastest.
Considering there are no other browsers on iOS to compare to, Safari is obviously the fastest by default.
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Re: For developers, Safari is crap and outdated
#128Speaking from personal experience as a developer (although YMMV) - this is totally true. And I'm not even talking about some newfangled APIs like WebUSB and such (I don't really care about those personally). Safari's handling of regular HTML + CSS is regularly broken compared to other browsers. (At least in my experience.) Open the site in Chromium. Yep it works. Open the site in Firefox. Yep it works. Open the site…
History is just repeating itself. If you capture enough browser market share, there is no incentive improve handling of web content that does not materially help the bottom line. IE gave us wonderful features (XMLHTTPRequest) but as soon as MSFT found they had a monopoly, development stalled and the world got stuck with IE6, which lacked even basic features like PNG image alpha transparency. When/if a court orders Ap…
Hey, IE6 had PNG alpha, as long as you did some black magic to your PNG files to make the alpha work, which is really the story of IE6.
Re: For developers, Safari is crap and outdated
#129>Why did developers and software engineers hate IE so much? Because IE was seriously outdated, lacking support for cutting-edge web APIs and technologies enabling the modern websites and web apps we use today. Nonsense. The almost universal contempt for Internet Exploder amongst web developers had nothing to do with lack of support for cutting edgw APIs. It was because Internet Exploder refused to follow basic web st…
Safari doesn't even work on other platforms, my office doesn't test or fix their specific bugs anyway. Good riddance.
Re: For developers, Safari is crap and outdated
#130Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Reddit is a pretty low bar Reddit is a multi billion dollar product and one of the most trafficked sites on the internet.
Why do they continue to degrade the mobile/desktop default web experience? Promoting the app is one thing, but then actively harming the user experience? Do most people not care? Insane either way. The day old.reddit dies Ill blacklist the site permanently.
Most consumer companies don't necessarily care about delivering the best UX, just gamifying it to get people to spend more money or time. Just look at AirBNB. You used to be able to sort by price but that option is gone completely and now you have to rely on their algorithm. There is no reason they would neuter the search unless it lead to more bookings.
As far as Reddit, I'm surprised the 3rd party apps using the API haven't gotten ads yet. They're heaps better than the official Reddit app.