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The Brilliance of Dwarf Fortress

nytimes.com

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Re: The Brilliance of Dwarf Fortress

#111

Post by pushingbits »

InclinedPlane wrote: post #63
jemfinch wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish I could have ignored you saying that John Carmack is not a real hacker, but I couldn't. Carmack has consistently pushed forward multiple industries on multiple fronts, and remains to this day a far better programmer than any I've ever worked with. He revolutionized computer gaming while living the life just because he loves it. He's not famous because he has Ferraris; his Ferraris are famous because they're hi…

These days he splits his non-Ferrari-driving-time between hacking on next gen. cross-platform game engines and hacking on rockets (at Armadillo aerospace). He may be a successful hacker, but he's most definitely a hacker right down to the core.

Started following him on twitter recently (http://twitter.com/#!/ID_AA_Carmack).

Definitely not coasting.

Re: The Brilliance of Dwarf Fortress

#112

Post by gaius »

tensor wrote: post #81
sunir wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry. I hear what you're saying and I think you are deeply wrong. (Oh no, someone is wrong on the Internet! :) Carmack, Gates, Zuck and Woz are the real deal. Saying they aren't because others toil in obscurity is some hopeless romanticism about hacker culture. A heart warmer, maybe?, but not justified. Just because financial outcomes are not matched to your hacker ideal doesn't invalidate either approach. The rich…

To be fair, Gates was more business man than any sort of hacker. While Zuckerberg may have actually coded his first product, unlike Gates, making a web app, no matter how popular, is far cry from what Carmack and Wozniak have done. Perhaps it's an illustration that it's often not fancy maths and algorithms that pay, but rather being in the right place at the right time with the right product. That said, there are ins…

Ahem: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2001/05/15/could_bill_gates_wri...

Re: The Brilliance of Dwarf Fortress

#113

Post by megablast »

cageface wrote: post #110
jokermatt999 wrote: post #38

If you're ever worried that a feature will be too complex to implement, take a look at the ridiculous number of things Dwarf Fortress keeps track of and simulates some time. The article briefly touches on it, but like any look at Dwarf Fortress, it bared dips its toes in the water. Just a quick list off the top of my head... In world gen, it simulates geology and erosion, climate/biomes, growing civilizations, politi…

I wonder how he manages to balance all these elements. Even in much simpler games balancing the strengths and weaknesses of all the actors can be very difficult. With so many interlocking factors it seems it would next to impossible to avoid inadvertently making one tactic or actor too powerful. For example, in the early Civ games the optimal strategy was to just build up to chariot technology and then go 100% on the…

The early civ games were susceptible to the mongol hord method, which the designer never considered.

Re: The Brilliance of Dwarf Fortress

#114

Post by gaius »

cydonian_monk wrote: post #68
cpeterso wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have not played Dwarf Fortress, but is the game really so processor intensive that a 1 GHz dual-core iPad 2 (with GPU) could not keep up?

My 3.2 GhZ Dual Core system chokes at times with it, so yes. The biggest catch is that the core of the game is not multi-threaded (though graphics may be depending on config). The throughput of a single processor core is the most important factor in the simulation's performance. The iPad, while nice for the rather passive computations it's expected to perform, just doesn't have the muscle. Now assuming the game could…

You would probably want to run it on something like a POWER7 for best possible performance then, which have fewer but faster cores than comparable x64s, if there is an AIX port.

Re: The Brilliance of Dwarf Fortress

#115

Post by hootmon »

1st Carmack has shipped nothing of merit since DOOM. periodomissimo. I could give a crap about some esoteric C programmer utility, that stuff is boring and outdated. People who worship him are pathetic fanboy wannabees. He talks the walk, but he is no longer hungry and all he is good for is advanced BS.

2nd Dwarf Fortress is so deep and complex, I would guess that the hit rate of people who manage to survive the huge vertical cliff wall learning curve is around 1 percent, mere mortals quit.

It is a major undertaking just figuring out which version to download and which plug-ins/extras to install also. I have a personal goal to get a fortress going someday.

The problem with DF is you cannot see the forest for the trees. Its just detail heaped on detail, The span between an overview and the detail is so vast that no human effort to date has done it justice, such that only the most determined ever get as far as completing an install and establishing a fortress.

At the beginning one is faced with hundreds of detailed options to set, searching related documentation only turns up a hundred more options related to each choice. Such that trying to make sense of it just becomes an exercise in futility. Asking one question, only brings to for 100 more instead of an answer.

It is this mind numbing grognardism that appeals to a certain sector of gamers. People who relish detail and micromanagement. Trust me, setting up a starting fortress is no less daunting than any NASA prelaunch procedure.

Re: The Brilliance of Dwarf Fortress

#117

Post by Swannie »

Nice article.

Reminds me a little of the two lead characters of "Makers", the Cory Doctorow book. But this is real, and mildly depressing. You want guys like this to be successful, and to have the choice to live the spartan lifestyle if they choose, or one with a better choice of food, beverage, sleeping, etc. options.

Sad to read that relationships are not important though :-(

Re: The Brilliance of Dwarf Fortress

#118

Post by horser4dish »

cageface wrote: post #110
jokermatt999 wrote: post #38

If you're ever worried that a feature will be too complex to implement, take a look at the ridiculous number of things Dwarf Fortress keeps track of and simulates some time. The article briefly touches on it, but like any look at Dwarf Fortress, it bared dips its toes in the water. Just a quick list off the top of my head... In world gen, it simulates geology and erosion, climate/biomes, growing civilizations, politi…

I wonder how he manages to balance all these elements. Even in much simpler games balancing the strengths and weaknesses of all the actors can be very difficult. With so many interlocking factors it seems it would next to impossible to avoid inadvertently making one tactic or actor too powerful. For example, in the early Civ games the optimal strategy was to just build up to chariot technology and then go 100% on the…

There are a lot of releases, and fairly often; I've had versions go "out of date" on me within a week of its release. The forums are very active, and when they say something is unbalanced or broken, it tends to get fixed. Some things are not serious game-breakers, even if they are mildly broken (see: elephants in the versions that Boatmurdered used), and those tend to stay in until it becomes a pain to deal with.

Basically, it's just trial-and-error. But it makes for an interesting game, because you're never quite sure if everything will work as expected.

Re: The Brilliance of Dwarf Fortress

#119

Post by bluekite2000 »

forensic wrote: post #61
scott_s wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remember, what one person can program when they're truly dedicated is a pretty incredible feat. And I wonder if the level of dedication he has demonstrated requires Asperger's. He has all of the classic symptoms, down to the the involuntary rocking. I've worked hard, and I've sacrificed a lot of my time to my work. But I'm not willing to sacrifice as much of my time as he has. And it's quite likely his life's work wi…

The only thing he's missing out on is romance and sex. His occupation and lifestyle appears to satisfy all the other typical human needs. Taking a DSM perspective is not the most enlightening perspective. The sex thing is a big problem. In the past, great artists were able to find companionship and sex despite poverty and oddness. Why is it that hackers have such difficulty? If Richard Stallman's medium was anything…

You are making it sound it he CAN'T get girls. I m sure he can if he puts in the time. It is just not his priority right now. Time is limited. And he chose to devote his time to the game.

Re: The Brilliance of Dwarf Fortress

#120

Post by idonthack »

joshu wrote: post #53
idonthack wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there's an ncurses mode in the linux version. i use it to play over ssh, as my laptop is weak. the opengl is mainly for tileset support.

Oh god there is a Linux version now? Which means I can play it under screen? or from my iPad? Thanks, there goes all my free time.

ipad play is probably wonky as df is heavily keyboard-based, but let me know how that goes.
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