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Mammals dream about the world they are about to experience before they are born

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21–30 of 193 posts

Re: Mammals dream about the world they are about to experience before they are born

#21

I'm sure there is brain activity that prepares the baby for birth, but calling it a "dream" is just clickbait

I guess the suggestion that fetuses might dream probably seems outlandish if, for some reason, you were already committed to the idea that fetuses are "not alive."

Re: Mammals dream about the world they are about to experience before they are born

#22
post #12

Something about this reminds me of the 'Winning Ticket Hypothesis' in artifical neural networks: that some 'random' initializations prime a network far better for later faster learning. From https://arxiv.org/abs/1803.03635 - the abstract: Neural network pruning techniques can reduce the parameter counts of trained networks by over 90%, decreasing storage requirements and improving computational performance of infere…

> Are these innate patterns of activity priming mammalian brains in a similar way? A newborn foal can stand within 55 minutes of being born and can walk or run within 90 minutes. That is crazy fast training speed. Is it training initialization or is it a form of transfer learning? Most human babies take 9-18 months to walk, and this is commonly attributed to the fact that human babies have immature brains that cannot…

Interesting. Could this also partly explain child geniuses? In general they are worlds ahead early in life. But they aren't significantly better then the non child genius peers later in life.

Re: Mammals dream about the world they are about to experience before they are born

#23
post #12

Something about this reminds me of the 'Winning Ticket Hypothesis' in artifical neural networks: that some 'random' initializations prime a network far better for later faster learning. From https://arxiv.org/abs/1803.03635 - the abstract: Neural network pruning techniques can reduce the parameter counts of trained networks by over 90%, decreasing storage requirements and improving computational performance of infere…

> Are these innate patterns of activity priming mammalian brains in a similar way? A newborn foal can stand within 55 minutes of being born and can walk or run within 90 minutes. That is crazy fast training speed. Is it training initialization or is it a form of transfer learning? Most human babies take 9-18 months to walk, and this is commonly attributed to the fact that human babies have immature brains that cannot…

> Most human babies take 9-18 months to walk, and this is commonly attributed to the fact that human babies have immature brains that cannot mature due to birth canal constraints

I strongly doubt that human babies are physiologically capable of walking before 6-9 months regardless of their level of brain development. The entire baby is born many months "early" compared with other mammals due to the limitations of the human pelvis.

Re: Mammals dream about the world they are about to experience before they are born

#24
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think brains are pre-wired to recognize 3D objects. There was an example case of a blind man with cataracts getting it fixed at around 50 years old. People were curious if he would be able to know if a sphere was round just by looking at it without touching it. IIRC - not only could he not do that, but he couldn't visually interpret shadows (saw them as black splotches - didn't recognize depth), and was confu…

Fascinating anecdote, and I'd love to see the report on this. I wonder what else they learned from such an interesting case study. But I doubt it's 100% "no pre-wiring". What about gravity and musculature? Surely brains must know or train on these in some way before birth. And what about fight or flight reflexes and presupposing monsters in the shadows? My understanding is that these had a primitive evolutionary basi…

Yeah - I just meant specifically 3D visual modeling. I think some fears are known to be innate among apes - fear of the dark, snakes, and falling. Also paying attention to faces?

The cataracts thing was an article I saw on HN a few years ago, but don’t remember the title.

Re: Mammals dream about the world they are about to experience before they are born

#25

I'm sure there is brain activity that prepares the baby for birth, but calling it a "dream" is just clickbait

I guess the suggestion that fetuses might dream probably seems outlandish if, for some reason, you were already committed to the idea that fetuses are "not alive."

I find it highly implausible that many people believe fetusus are "not alive". You might be referring to the widely held position that an early-term fetus isn't sufficiently developed to be considered a full-fledged human, and that any rights it might have don't outweigh those of the mother who is carrying it?

Re: Mammals dream about the world they are about to experience before they are born

#26
post #12

Something about this reminds me of the 'Winning Ticket Hypothesis' in artifical neural networks: that some 'random' initializations prime a network far better for later faster learning. From https://arxiv.org/abs/1803.03635 - the abstract: Neural network pruning techniques can reduce the parameter counts of trained networks by over 90%, decreasing storage requirements and improving computational performance of infere…

> Are these innate patterns of activity priming mammalian brains in a similar way? A newborn foal can stand within 55 minutes of being born and can walk or run within 90 minutes. That is crazy fast training speed. Is it training initialization or is it a form of transfer learning? Most human babies take 9-18 months to walk, and this is commonly attributed to the fact that human babies have immature brains that cannot…

> Most human babies take 9-18 months to walk, and this is commonly attributed to the fact that human babies have immature brains

Have you ever seen a new-born baby's legs?

They aren't even remotely strong enough to walk, no matter what the brain tells them. It takes those months to develop leg muscles. New-borns don't have them.

It's absolutely not restricted by the brain size.

Re: Mammals dream about the world they are about to experience before they are born

#28
post #12

Something about this reminds me of the 'Winning Ticket Hypothesis' in artifical neural networks: that some 'random' initializations prime a network far better for later faster learning. From https://arxiv.org/abs/1803.03635 - the abstract: Neural network pruning techniques can reduce the parameter counts of trained networks by over 90%, decreasing storage requirements and improving computational performance of infere…

> Are these innate patterns of activity priming mammalian brains in a similar way? A newborn foal can stand within 55 minutes of being born and can walk or run within 90 minutes. That is crazy fast training speed. Is it training initialization or is it a form of transfer learning? Most human babies take 9-18 months to walk, and this is commonly attributed to the fact that human babies have immature brains that cannot…

Maybe given the length & complexity of a full human life, a bunch of brain factors actually work to slow specialization down to prevent early overfitting.

Re: Mammals dream about the world they are about to experience before they are born

#29
post #3

Unit-testing the software before deployment.

Yes and just like software it doesn't matter the test results were still going live

That's way less of a foregone conclusion than you seem to think.
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