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Bye-bye, Bitcoin: It's time to ban cryptocurrencies

thehill.com

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Re: Bye-bye, Bitcoin: It's time to ban cryptocurrencies

#161

Post by nscalf »

whateveracct wrote: post #65
nscalf wrote: post #12

This is some of the worst junk writing I've seen on the hill. Some pretty wrong things in here, like insinuating that the only value of crypto is to criminals, and all but saying that the reason there are hackings to things like critical infrastructure is because crypto exists, which is just silly. Then it flags bitcoin as an environmental hazard, though estimates seem to be ~50-70% of BTC energy use is from renewabl…

Don't call it Web 3.0 - these projects have proven very little to imply they are the true next progression of the "Web." Most of the use-cases don't even especially benefit from decentralization. The main reason they have blockchains and coins is so the project founders can cash out the moment they release a mainnet (thus getting paid by the fans they hype up.) Look at dfinity (ICP) for a recent example. First week o…

That may be a fair criticism of the naming. My point was more that it doesn't make sense to be called cryptocurrency, and less that it's the true next progression of the web.

With regards to the cash outs, I think there's probably an argument to be made about web 1.0 and 2.0 companies that were highly unprofitable with no way to ever become profitable. There were investors propping up companies with bad fundamentals, IPO'ing, cashing out, and in the end the tech bubble pops and takes down the market and retail investors with it. Crypto definitely does it more quickly and violently, but it's not a crypto specific phenomenon.

Re: Bye-bye, Bitcoin: It's time to ban cryptocurrencies

#162

Post by nscalf »

legulere wrote: post #59
nscalf wrote: post #12

This is some of the worst junk writing I've seen on the hill. Some pretty wrong things in here, like insinuating that the only value of crypto is to criminals, and all but saying that the reason there are hackings to things like critical infrastructure is because crypto exists, which is just silly. Then it flags bitcoin as an environmental hazard, though estimates seem to be ~50-70% of BTC energy use is from renewabl…

But where are cryptocurrencies used as a currency except by criminals? They offer no benefit for legal transactions except in rare edge cases.

"Cryptocurrency" is really an outdated name. Most of these don't claim to be currencies and aren't trying to replace standard money. Even bitcoin has pivoted to be a store of wealth with scarcity built in, akin to gold. Very few really think it should/will become a true replacement for typical currency at this point.

Edit: They do become a very valid replacement for a store of wealth in less stable economies however. Venezuela has seen a lot of utility from Bitcoin since their currency is even more volatile than Bitcoin is. You could imagine the quantity of countries that applies to grows as Bitcoin (or another coin) gets more adoption and it's price becomes less volatile. Particularly things like stable coins, which are pinned to the US dollar (1 stable coin effectively always equals $1).

Re: Bye-bye, Bitcoin: It's time to ban cryptocurrencies

#163

Post by itake »

dandanua wrote: post #50
itake wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've said this so many times: But what does it doooooo??? Name one project that isn't "speculation" or "loans" built on cryptocurrency that has seen any uptick or utility. NFTs sure ain't it. DAOs sure ain't it. Supply chain tracking sure ain't it. In developing nations where the residents do not have access to regulated and "safe" investment vehicles like stock exchanges, where can they invest their saves? Physica…

So, you're proposing that poor nations should invest in this financial pyramid. Great idea!

If people find value in baseball cards, I don't see what is wrong with allowing poor nations to grow their wealth with crypto.

Re: Bye-bye, Bitcoin: It's time to ban cryptocurrencies

#164

Post by itake »

lmohseni wrote: post #47
itake wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've said this so many times: But what does it doooooo??? Name one project that isn't "speculation" or "loans" built on cryptocurrency that has seen any uptick or utility. NFTs sure ain't it. DAOs sure ain't it. Supply chain tracking sure ain't it. In developing nations where the residents do not have access to regulated and "safe" investment vehicles like stock exchanges, where can they invest their saves? Physica…

Those are all much better options than a Ponzi scheme/ financial bubble.

This bubble has been going on for 11 years. When does it cease to be a bubble?

Re: Bye-bye, Bitcoin: It's time to ban cryptocurrencies

#165

Post by nscalf »

agloeregrets wrote: post #63
nscalf wrote: post #12

This is some of the worst junk writing I've seen on the hill. Some pretty wrong things in here, like insinuating that the only value of crypto is to criminals, and all but saying that the reason there are hackings to things like critical infrastructure is because crypto exists, which is just silly. Then it flags bitcoin as an environmental hazard, though estimates seem to be ~50-70% of BTC energy use is from renewabl…

> Then it flags bitcoin as an environmental hazard, though estimates seem to be ~50-70% of BTC energy use is from renewables. Here is a brilliant idea...What if all of that renewable energy was...not wasted on crypto?

So we can waste it on watching porn, pumping water to golf courses, running the light in your fridge, charging your fitbit, or whatever else you choose to do with it. You can extend that argument to anything that uses power which you don't approve of. Your problem isn't with crypto, it's with the power grid.

Here's a brilliant idea: what if you did the leg work to lobby your politicians to push for a power grid that did what you wanted without having to limit innovation...instead of complaining online?

Re: Bye-bye, Bitcoin: It's time to ban cryptocurrencies

#166

Post by nscalf »

ren_engineer wrote: post #26
nscalf wrote: post #12

This is some of the worst junk writing I've seen on the hill. Some pretty wrong things in here, like insinuating that the only value of crypto is to criminals, and all but saying that the reason there are hackings to things like critical infrastructure is because crypto exists, which is just silly. Then it flags bitcoin as an environmental hazard, though estimates seem to be ~50-70% of BTC energy use is from renewabl…

the people calling to ban crypto don't care about the environment, that's just an easy selling point for them to garner public support from people who normally wouldn't care. It's all about control of the financial system

I think it's probably a lot of motives, but one of them is that most of our (USA) politicians are too old, and frankly many too dumb, to properly grasp nuanced topics like these. They don't understand crypto, or the internet, or cyber warfare, or larger economic conflict, or any number of critical things they should be well informed on. Their prime focus is on getting reelected and pushing their own agenda, not good stewardship of the nation. I agree that they are pandering on the environment point, there are much more valuable things to spend your time on if you're worried about the environment.

Re: Bye-bye, Bitcoin: It's time to ban cryptocurrencies

#167

Post by nscalf »

api wrote: post #51
nscalf wrote: post #12

This is some of the worst junk writing I've seen on the hill. Some pretty wrong things in here, like insinuating that the only value of crypto is to criminals, and all but saying that the reason there are hackings to things like critical infrastructure is because crypto exists, which is just silly. Then it flags bitcoin as an environmental hazard, though estimates seem to be ~50-70% of BTC energy use is from renewabl…

Give me one Web 3.0 thing that a non-trivial number of people use that is not directly related back to cryptocurrency itself (speculation, exchanges, gambling, etc.). A product? A service? A game? A hosting solution? The only one I can think of is Sia and maybe FileCoin if they actually ship something useful, and those have only a tiny number of actual users. I guess maybe Steemit if someone actually still uses that.…

I described some of this in other comments, but my favorite use case is Vechain (I hold their coin). They primarily focus on supply chain logistics, Walmart uses them for their food supply chain. Food validation is a big issue in China, so you can scan a QR code and get information on where your food has been and the temperature it has been kept at all along the chain. They also just released a covid passport for the small country of San Marino.

Beyond just Vechain, Cardano is working with Ethiopia to give five million students a blockchain-based ID that will allow the government to track their academic performance. There are more examples like these, though admittedly many of them have been announced in the past year or so. Ethereum, which is a bit older than these projects, is on path to clear $1-2 Trillion this year.

I know the argument that this is early days isn't very compelling, but I think it makes more sense to look at generation 3 cryptos as the start of crypto's focus being fully blockchain projects instead of currency replacements.

Re: Bye-bye, Bitcoin: It's time to ban cryptocurrencies

#168

Post by noxer »

cwkoss wrote: post #156
noxer wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If I lock 1BTC up in an encrypted wallet, nobody can deprive me of that 1BTC without my consent and participation. That is the killer app. And that's where you went wrong. Its not "nobody" instead its everybody who participates in this who collectively decide where the price goes. It doesn't matter at all that nobody can take your BTC the only thing that matters is the value of it which can be taken away while you s…

Yes, Bitcoin is much more volatile, but literally everything you said applies to every other currency or monetary instrument. There is no guarantee that Tesla stock, or t-bills or the dollar will have value in 20 years. Money is a collective hallucination and can disappear as soon as people stop believing in it.

I called out whats wrong in your logic. I never claimed anything about fiat/stock or whatever. Its irrelevant, the only point you made FOR bitcoin (namely that no one can take it away from you) is moot because the value can still go away there is just no one to sue/blame if it happens.

Re: Bye-bye, Bitcoin: It's time to ban cryptocurrencies

#169

Post by drdeca »

cwkoss wrote: post #151
drdeca wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the one hand, yes. On the other hand, if some centrally-run MMO were to use NFTs that they issue for its items (or, I guess probably maybe they shouldn’t be non-fungible really, because one “hammer of smiting” should probably be equivalent to any other “hammer of smiting”, no point keeping track of them as separate entities when you can just keep track of who owns how many of each. But that is beside the point), W…

Yeah, I personally think using NFTs for gameplay-altering items seems like a bad path that will lead to frustrated holders of useless things, because either meta will shift and they'll have to disable some items or they have to manage permanent power inflation (challenging to do well and will devalue the items anyways). A lot of "Free to play" games get most of their money from cosmetic enhancements. I think cross-ga…

I suppose what I said would be less of an issue for cosmetic items, good point. As for “how to get other games to recognize the tokens for the cosmetic items”, I suppose one reason could be via the use of copyright: grant a license to other games to use the assets for the items, conditional on the requirement that they only allow it for people who have the token in question. If they are high quality assets, and in a format where they can be easily incorporated, then that could make it worthwhile to implement them. Of course, the game using the assets from the other game would prefer to be allowed to use the assets for anything they want, but, seeing as it is essentially for free, if it fits with the art style and setting/mood of the borrowing game, that could make it worth it, maybe. If the group granting the license wanted to provide additional encouragement to do this, they could also issue some number of the tokens to be distributed by the other game. This could maybe work as a cross-promotional thing. People from the first game which don’t have the token could be motivated to try the other game because they can use(wear) the item in the game they already play, and people who are playing the second game could be made aware of the first game by the introduction of the item. (Of course, many parts of this could be done without any sort of token by just having the game servers contact each-other on occasion, but tokens could allow the sharing between many games more easily maybe. Also allows making it really be the same item on both games such that if one sells it in one, it is also gone in the other, without needing the servers for the different games to constantly contact one-another over that kind of thing.)

I do think something that could be interesting would be to use a permission-ed authenticated append-only database (essentially like a proof-of-authority blockchain, except not necessarily a blockchain, could be closer to an ordinary database), which could allow the kinds of cross-chain trades we see in actual blockchains, which could facilitate trades of items between different games, without requiring the players trust that the other player will uphold their end of the trade on the other game, just trust that the game servers don’t cheat, as the game servers would have basically no reason to do that. I think these would be able to scale much more easily, while still being potentially compatible with actual blockchains.

Re: Bye-bye, Bitcoin: It's time to ban cryptocurrencies

#170

Post by abeppu »

noxer wrote: post #145
abeppu wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does Ethereum do stuff well or efficiently? My understanding is that gas prices have been both high and unpredictable, and as such even for use cases where smart contracts make sense in the abstract, it can be impractical to use it b/c the overhead would be too high.

Does it matter? BTC and ETH are the version 1 of something "new". The version one is the playground. There is plenty demand for ETH/BTC like systems without the inefficiencies and so people are building better systems. Flare is an new project that will (maybe, probably, who knows) be able to run everything ETH can because it uses the EVM but it does not use PoW or PoS and thus will not have the fees and slowness. May…

to summarize:

- in an ancestor post, crypto skeptic asks "but what does it doooo?"

- response, "Bitcoin doesn't do much, but Ethereum does stuff"

- me, skeptical "But does Ethereum actually do stuff?"

- answer: "no, but something else in the future might"

We're 13 years into blockchain technologies, and it seems like there's still not a convincing case of it being a good, useful solution to a real need. Saying that the next thing will be better stretches credulity.

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