Live data from Hacker News

Bye-bye, Bitcoin: It's time to ban cryptocurrencies

thehill.com

141–150 of 184 posts

Re: Bye-bye, Bitcoin: It's time to ban cryptocurrencies

#141
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Portable assets is one. You can buy and NFT on one market, use it within a game, display it in your virtual home, then sell it on a different market. Blockchain allows individuals to actually own digital assets. (Whether those digital assets are valued correctly is a totally separate discussion - personally I think there are many that are grossly overvalued...) World of warcraft items, amazon video or ebook purchases…

> You can buy and NFT on one market, use it within a game, display it in your virtual home Where can I do that? I don't have a virtual home, how can I get one?

Disclaimer: I haven't done any of this myself and don't think any of these are rational investments.

Most NFT marketplaces have a 'portfolio' page that displays all of the NFTs you own.

Then there are second-life style digital worlds (where you can buy virtual real estate) that some people have created NFT galleries within. Seems like Cryptovoxels and Decentraland are the two leaders in this space.

There are also a handful of MMO-type games where tradable items have been turned into NFTs, so they can be traded and possessed externally to the game. Maybe some allow cross-game usage too? I'm not sure, haven't been following these that closely - there a bunch and I am too skeptical to dive into any of them.

Re: Bye-bye, Bitcoin: It's time to ban cryptocurrencies

#142
post #79

"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win” We're at the "they fight you" stage. Yesterday it was energy usage FUD. Today it's cybercriminals FUD. I'm buying because there's only one stage left: "you win" and we're not there yet.

> "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win” Great wisdom from Gandhi but I prefer the Silicon Valley way of saying things. More inspiring. "This is what happens when you work to change things. First they think you're crazy, then they fight you, then you change the world." From Elizabeth Holmes, founder and CEO of Theranos.

What is the return on investment of a decentralized world? What is the return on investment of a centralized world?

Re: Bye-bye, Bitcoin: It's time to ban cryptocurrencies

#143
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right now, the government taxes USD cash savings at 5.4% (current inflation rate). There are good reasons for fiat currencies to continue existing, but it is also easy to understand why savers find a currency that cannot be devalued by federal reserve policy appealing. Personally, I also think the transparency of Bitcoin is a positive quality. Even the federal reserve does not have the capability to trace exactly whe…

Govt transparency does not require Blockchain to happen, this could be done with any database. The hard part is recording everything. Imagine what happens when some agency loses their wallet key...

Technically, you're right, but I think a centralized database doesn't provide much trust beyond current govt reporting methods.

The nice thing about decentralized blockchains for government transparency is that it is absolute and mandatory.

I'd worry that a centralized database would simply omit some expenditures if they were used for black-ops or things that could otherwise hurt the reputation of the government.

Re: Bye-bye, Bitcoin: It's time to ban cryptocurrencies

#144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

well not sure what this proves, but I guess you can bet against the ethereum developers delivering. I'm personally not making that bet, but if you want to do so, that's your view of the world lol.

I know core devs and hodl, just saying they continuously fail to deliver and that there is doubt that a solution is actually possible. Things get far more complex and the exploits quite interesting

that's fair, and you actually have an informed view on this matter.

The solution you have come to is a fair one (which is that truly developing a decentralized infrastructure that is reasonably priced to run apps on has too many challenges to succeed, at least the current solution that ethereum is providing).

I have hope that these problems can be surmounted by the ethereum development team. There are lots of challenges, and that is why everyone says we are at the beginning stages.

I think it's worth a shot, and if it succeeds I do believe we'd live in a better society.

Re: Bye-bye, Bitcoin: It's time to ban cryptocurrencies

#145
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've said this so many times: But what does it doooooo??? Are you asking about Bitcoin or Crypto? Bitcoin doesn't do much atm, but Ethereum does stuff, and Bitcoin Cash is pretty practical as a currency at the moment. There's plenty that can be done, but the market will have to decide what to converge on.

Does Ethereum do stuff well or efficiently? My understanding is that gas prices have been both high and unpredictable, and as such even for use cases where smart contracts make sense in the abstract, it can be impractical to use it b/c the overhead would be too high.

Does it matter? BTC and ETH are the version 1 of something "new". The version one is the playground. There is plenty demand for ETH/BTC like systems without the inefficiencies and so people are building better systems. Flare is an new project that will (maybe, probably, who knows) be able to run everything ETH can because it uses the EVM but it does not use PoW or PoS and thus will not have the fees and slowness. Maybe Flare will still not cut it and die like the countless other projects then something else will come. Its just tech/code in the end. When it comes to real utility people will use whatever there is that delivers.

Unlike with the whole gambling where people mostly set their money on the big coins regardless of if its actually useful (its mostly not). There are some big companies out there building amazing stuff. Crypto people especially bitcoin people often hate them because they represent the "real world" with banks and regulations and all that. And ofc they dont build anything on BTC because its tech s*cks and is p much useless for anything beside speculation

Both BTC and ETH could be gone some day, the technology however will not go away. Most of the "bad" thing people point out is exclusively to PoW system anyway, like the whole energy wasting things. Its completely irrelevant for 99% of all other projects. Its kinda like if people would yell at cars because there are these huge diesel trucks that blow out black smoke in a world where ~99% of all cares are EVs. And then comes an article like this one here calling for banning cars because of the black smoke he saw the other day.

Reality check: We dont ban cars because some cares blow out black smoke. We dont ban crypto because some (one) uses whole coal mines of energy.

Re: Bye-bye, Bitcoin: It's time to ban cryptocurrencies

#146
post #119
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What has been built on Blockchain? Specifically I'm looking for examples of things that solve a problem that couldn't be solved without Blockchain, or at least were unsolved before.

Portable assets is one. You can buy and NFT on one market, use it within a game, display it in your virtual home, then sell it on a different market. Blockchain allows individuals to actually own digital assets. (Whether those digital assets are valued correctly is a totally separate discussion - personally I think there are many that are grossly overvalued...) World of warcraft items, amazon video or ebook purchases…

On the one hand, yes.

On the other hand, if some centrally-run MMO were to use NFTs that they issue for its items (or, I guess probably maybe they shouldn’t be non-fungible really, because one “hammer of smiting” should probably be equivalent to any other “hammer of smiting”, no point keeping track of them as separate entities when you can just keep track of who owns how many of each. But that is beside the point), Well, the game devs still control how these items actually behave in-game. If they want to take away someone’s mystic scepter of lightning, they can just make the game cease to acknowledge the existing “mystic scepter of lightning” token, and give everyone other than that person a new token for “mystic scepter of lightning” and have the game recognize this new token.

So, sure, this person gets to keep their token, but it no longer has the in-game effect or appearance.

So, what’s the point? If the salt loses its saltiness, it is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.

Someone could make another game which does use the token, but, if this is an mmo, a large part of the value requires the other players. (As, otherwise, why bother making it an online game at all? Just make a local single player game, where the developers can’t change what is on the player’s computer (unless the player chooses to update) anyway, so unless this other game can get a substantial player base, why would this make the old token for the lightning scepter useful again?

So, for [this strategy of using tokens for items in the game with the goal of making people really possess the items, not at the mercy of the people running the game] to make sense, the entire game would have to be decentralized, or something like that.

(The Cryptokitties thing was kind of like that iirc, in that the page to render them and whatnot was just released as a self-contained thing over IPFS, and while the developers could, of course, release a modified version of it later if they wanted, the original version would still be available and working as long as people wanted to continue using it. Also iirc other people made alternative clients for it which rendered the cats in different ways? So, that kind of fits the idea of “some other game including the scepter token” I guess?)

But if an mmo game is to have like, continuing updates, for new content and such, that doesn’t really seem compatible with the “you really own the items in a meaningful way”. I suppose it could be set up such that players who didn’t want to update could continue to play an old version, with some degree of compatibility between earlier and later versions? But you can’t trade a Lugia from pokemon Silver to pokemon Blue (though you can trade a Paras from Silver to Blue).

Re: Bye-bye, Bitcoin: It's time to ban cryptocurrencies

#147
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Govt transparency does not require Blockchain to happen, this could be done with any database. The hard part is recording everything. Imagine what happens when some agency loses their wallet key...

Technically, you're right, but I think a centralized database doesn't provide much trust beyond current govt reporting methods. The nice thing about decentralized blockchains for government transparency is that it is absolute and mandatory. I'd worry that a centralized database would simply omit some expenditures if they were used for black-ops or things that could otherwise hurt the reputation of the government.

Transparency would have to be legislated to be mandatory, database or Blockchain. Transition to Blockchain would be complex and likely create more issues than it alleviates, compared to private infra.

Re: Bye-bye, Bitcoin: It's time to ban cryptocurrencies

#148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know core devs and hodl, just saying they continuously fail to deliver and that there is doubt that a solution is actually possible. Things get far more complex and the exploits quite interesting

that's fair, and you actually have an informed view on this matter. The solution you have come to is a fair one (which is that truly developing a decentralized infrastructure that is reasonably priced to run apps on has too many challenges to succeed, at least the current solution that ethereum is providing). I have hope that these problems can be surmounted by the ethereum development team. There are lots of challen…

If a blockchain is to succeed, it will likely be something other than ETH. The fees for ops is far more complicated than renting VM time from a hyper cloud and performance is terrible. The DX is worse than the UX, the issues they need to overcome are human problems, not technology ones

Im particularly fond of Hyperledger Fabric, though it is quite antithetical to the crypto narrative.

Re: Bye-bye, Bitcoin: It's time to ban cryptocurrencies

#149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If BTC uses clean energy, someone else has to use the dirty energy because BTC took the renewable they could have used. Mining has also driven up costs for communities that had cheap renewables. BTC is a waste of energy because it doesn't do any of the things it claims to do. It's highly centralized, far more wealth imbalance, and trending towards custodial accounts if it ever wants to reach mass adoption.

That would depend on where the financial motivation to produce renewable energy is coming from. A logical argument could be made that bitcoin encourages the production and advancment of green energy technologies by rewarding such efforts with wealth generation.

Not all logical arguments follow a path of truthiness

Re: Bye-bye, Bitcoin: It's time to ban cryptocurrencies

#150
post #113
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be more persuasive if you could point to something that has utility and viability in the here and now. A killer app or something that benefits society and offsets the much talked about negative externalities. From the outside it’s hard to see the good and so the crypto community would benefit greatly by focusing on pr at least as much as the technology itself. When I talk to working class people, the view of…

Trustless banking is the killer app. Credit card payments, bank deposits, stock holdings: nearly everywhere humans hold value currently is a trust-based system that leaves you at the whims of more powerful counterparties. If the bank decides to zero out your account balance, they can. You can sue them, and should be able to get you money back if you take them to court, but they have the absolute ability to destroy yo…

>If I lock 1BTC up in an encrypted wallet, nobody can deprive me of that 1BTC without my consent and participation. That is the killer app.

And that's where you went wrong.

Its not "nobody" instead its everybody who participates in this who collectively decide where the price goes.

It doesn't matter at all that nobody can take your BTC the only thing that matters is the value of it which can be taken away while you still have it.

The value is defined by supply and demand and thus collectively moved by thousands of people by their actions. If enough people would sell the price would go so low that miners go out of business and the hash rate drops to the point where its no longer secure. At that point the value is essentially zero. You simply hope that there will never be enough people selling at the same time.

Post reply on HN