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Bye-bye, Bitcoin: It's time to ban cryptocurrencies

thehill.com

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Re: Bye-bye, Bitcoin: It's time to ban cryptocurrencies

#91
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've said this so many times: But what does it doooooo??? Are you asking about Bitcoin or Crypto? Bitcoin doesn't do much atm, but Ethereum does stuff, and Bitcoin Cash is pretty practical as a currency at the moment. There's plenty that can be done, but the market will have to decide what to converge on.

OK then, what does it do? Feel free to tell me. I've asked a lot of times and have never gotten a good response.

Stop trying to play cute. If smart contracts decentralize services that means that vendors collect money directly from the user with all the middle men reduced to a governable smart contract.

What does this mean ? Do you really need handholding to figure it out ?

It means that services will incur less fees for the client, and end up putting more money in the pocket of the vendor.

More money from the same transaction to the vendor == value by definition to the vendor.

Less fees from the same transaction for the client == value by definition to the user.

Saving money on services is perhaps the greatest value to society you can do. Who wouldn't want more money ? Is this not valuable to you ?

Re: Bye-bye, Bitcoin: It's time to ban cryptocurrencies

#92
post #79

"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win” We're at the "they fight you" stage. Yesterday it was energy usage FUD. Today it's cybercriminals FUD. I'm buying because there's only one stage left: "you win" and we're not there yet.

So, just something to think about, let's say I start a MLM(reverse funnel) scheme.

I will tell everyone "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win".

When I am taken to court for running a pyramid scheme and maybe doing a little fraud along the way, I can just shout we are at the "they fight you" stage. Hopefully, everyone keeps investing in my next scheme.

In reality, "they fight you" doesn't validate whatever you are doing in any way. If you get a positive court ruling, then maybe whatever you are doing is legit.

Many schemes go on for a long time. I used to have quite a bit of crypto. Btc helped pay for my education, but there are better investment vehicles out there.

Re: Bye-bye, Bitcoin: It's time to ban cryptocurrencies

#93
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cryptocurrency does not help with this. Also, I asked people to name a project that isn't speculation or loans.

https://cointelegraph.com/news/synthetix-is-already-tokenizi... "The Synthetix (SNX) project, one of the biggest ecosystems in decentralized finance (DeFi), recently launched the Hadar upgrade, which enabled tokenized real-world assets like Brent oil and the Nikkei stock index."

The article describes Synthetix as a means for speculating on real-world assets through the trading of tokens representing equity actually held on other exchanges. However, the tokens themselves merely underly the SNX crypto actually being exchanged.

IOW, it's just another vessel for speculating which purports to be backed by real financial assets in the same way Tether purports to be backed by cash.

Re: Bye-bye, Bitcoin: It's time to ban cryptocurrencies

#94
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

just because you don't use it or put in the effort to look at different decentralized projects doesn't mean there are "no use-cases". I think with the amount of activity on AAVE and yearn, plus the growth these projects have received have killed that argument. Very 2017 argument that no longer makes any sense and is presented by luddites. Most the bottlenecks right now to why you don't have day-to-day apps deployed o…

> Most the bottlenecks right now to why you don't have day-to-day apps deployed on ecosystems like ethereum is because of the gas prices. You have hundreds of very intelligent developers working to decrease this to fractions of a cent. But I can deploy an app on AWS for fractions of a cent right now. What does Ethereum do?

no you cannot deploy an uber-like taxi app on AWS for fractions of a cent.

More like billions of dollars and thousands of employees plus regulations.

It's not just about the deployment infrastructure, it's also about the actual vendor-client interaction and the cost of running the service, and where the incentives are.

Re: Bye-bye, Bitcoin: It's time to ban cryptocurrencies

#95
post #83
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crypto democratizes and decentralizes finance, banking the unbanked, debanking the overbanked, and rebanking the debanked. Using lightning network crypto eliminates middlemen and the annoying experience of transacting money between businesses and customers. With brain wallet seeds you can take your wealth with you anywhere as long as you can remember it or write it down where nobody else will see it, ever. For maximu…

You seem like someone very "plugged in" (ha!) to the cryptocurrency world, so I have to ask: what's the best kind of epoxy to fill my ethernet ports with?

I don't know, but I'll sell you a synthetic asset that mimics epoxy brands, tracking their prices using an oracle[0]. Instead of buying, say, a tube of JB Weld, you can buy 2 $JBW[1] and take out an overcollateralized loan to get the cash to buy your 1 tube of actual epoxy. Because cryptos go up, your $JBW collateral will probably have doubled in value by the time you need to pay back the loan, making the purchase completely free. This technique can be used to end poverty worldwide.

[0] website

[1] $JBW tokens are not redeemable for epoxy. However, I pinky promise that every time you buy one, I buy a tube of actual epoxy and throw it in the garbage, creating value that your token represents.

Re: Bye-bye, Bitcoin: It's time to ban cryptocurrencies

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

just because you don't use it or put in the effort to look at different decentralized projects doesn't mean there are "no use-cases". I think with the amount of activity on AAVE and yearn, plus the growth these projects have received have killed that argument. Very 2017 argument that no longer makes any sense and is presented by luddites. Most the bottlenecks right now to why you don't have day-to-day apps deployed o…

I'm not OP but this doesn't seem to answer the question. You presented a lot of speculation and mentioned two things that I've never heard of

the onus is not on me to hand-deliver you information. I'm just here to say OP is wrong, speaking emotionally/egotistically, and spreading trite arguments that have been debunked time and time again.

Go ahead and google "L2 ethereum" and "ethereum proof-of-staking migration". If you want to dive deep into the ecosystem it's all in plain sight for you to do so.

There is a lot going behind the scenes and I simply don't have time to regurgitate the information.

Re: Bye-bye, Bitcoin: It's time to ban cryptocurrencies

#97
post #33
post #12

This is some of the worst junk writing I've seen on the hill. Some pretty wrong things in here, like insinuating that the only value of crypto is to criminals, and all but saying that the reason there are hackings to things like critical infrastructure is because crypto exists, which is just silly. Then it flags bitcoin as an environmental hazard, though estimates seem to be ~50-70% of BTC energy use is from renewabl…

> though estimates seem to be ~50-70% of BTC energy use is from renewables Bullshit. When one coal mine in a remote region of China flooded, the Bitcoin hash rate measurably dropped by 30%. Keep in mind this was just one coal mine. Not all of China's production. https://fortune.com/2021/04/20/bitcoin-mining-coal-china-env... > it's more apt to call it Web 3.0 than cryptocurrency at this point. I've said this so many…

That coal-mine flood was in Xinjiang, and Xinjiang has now kicked out all its Bitcoin miners, because the only way it's profitable to mine Bitcoin with fossil-fuel power is when it's subsidized, and it was being subsidized. But subsidizing Bitcoin mining is unprofitable for any government, so these subsidy-exploitation setups tend to be short-lived.

90% of Bitcoin mining in the PRC got shut down permanently last month with little warning, dropping the hashrate by half: https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202106/1226598.shtml. Presumably it will nose back up over the next few months once deals have been signed and the mining hardware has been installed in new places with cheap unsubsidized electricity—necessarily from renewable sources.

I agree with your skepticism about non-currency uses of blockchains. Some people do seem to be using ENS now, and I think smart contracts might become usable eventually, but I'm not confident blockchains will be part of smart contracts as they actually get deployed.

As for the 12-years-into-the-internet thing, well.

The ARPANET started running in 01969. The first version of the FTP protocol we use today (USER, PASS, SOCK, TYPE, BYE) was standardized in RFC 354 in 01972. The "Internet Transmission Control Program" (TCP), featuring SYN/ACK/FIN bits, but 20-bit host numbers (divided into a 4-bit network ID and a 16-bit "TCP address") and 24-bit port numbers, is specified in RFC675 in 01974, and experimental deployments started in 01975. Version 2 of TCP is IEN 2 from 01977. Version 3 of TCP, with a separate IP layer so you could use it for voice over IP, is from 01978. 12 years after the ARPANET's launch was 01981, which is when the Internet Protocol was finally standardized (in RFC 791, IEN 128, replacing the 01980 RFC 760) as a future replacement for NCP. The switchover from NCP to TCP/IP was January 1, 01983.

So 12 years after the internet's launch was, depending on where you count from, either 01981, 01987, or January 1, 01995. Even on January 1, 01995, most of the US still had no for-profit ISPs; the closest thing most people could get was AOL over dialup (probably 14400 bps), which had three million users (1.5% of the US population) and wouldn't let you browse the WWW. AOL added an email gateway to the internet in 01992, Usenet access in September 01994, and web browsing later in 01995, all paid by the hour. At some later point AOL started providing actual internet access (so you could, for example, use telnet and ssh and upload files via FTP).

It was clear to me what the internet's utility was as soon as I got on it in 01992, 23 years after it started. But in 01995 Bill Gates's The Road Ahead dismissed the internet as a primitive precursor to the "information highway" he imagined, so it wasn't obvious to everyone, even 12 years after the switchover of the ARPANET to TCP/IP.

Similarly, the utility of Bitcoin is obvious to me, too, and to millions of other people. I've written about it here before, for example in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27448744.

Re: Bye-bye, Bitcoin: It's time to ban cryptocurrencies

#98

I'm curious if crypto enthusiasts believe crypto currencies won't be as regulated as other currencies and if not, in what way will it be more free and open in a beneficial manner?

Right now, the government taxes USD cash savings at 5.4% (current inflation rate).

There are good reasons for fiat currencies to continue existing, but it is also easy to understand why savers find a currency that cannot be devalued by federal reserve policy appealing.

Personally, I also think the transparency of Bitcoin is a positive quality. Even the federal reserve does not have the capability to trace exactly where a given dollar has been - they are just integers in black box databases owned by banks. They settle net amounts, but enumerating the history of any particular dollar is impossible - even an accurate approximation would be prohibitively expensive. History is integral to the architecture of Bitcoin, so being able to trace where exactly money came from is much easier to do than for the dollar. If governments were forced to use crypto for expenses, it would provide much more transparency into government spending. I think this is especially beneficial to NGOs - they can publish their addresses and the public can audit their income and expenses directly.

Re: Bye-bye, Bitcoin: It's time to ban cryptocurrencies

#99
post #41
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not even that there is absence of evidence -- but absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Moreover, your cherrypicking of "Internet-type" inventions that develop very quickly are definitely outliers. By contrast, the answering machine was invented in the 1930's, and didn't take off until 50ish years later. It's absurdly and ignorantly early to declare "crypto has no utility."

You mean the answering machine didn't take off until after the wars and great depression ended, suburban life started becoming the default for large groups of people, and they were starting to be away from home for long periods of time, and that before then it saw only limited use by the fairly small numbers of people who were away from their home for long periods of time? Well now I'm convinced. Guess I better buy t…

To be fair, the answering machine was suppressed by Bell Labs, even though magnetic tape recording was invented in the 1930s.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/3106703

Re: Bye-bye, Bitcoin: It's time to ban cryptocurrencies

#100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crypto in general isn't liked because it generally is BS propped up by holders to others to help their position like an MLM coworker. It isn't green (in it's current form for most). It doesn't solve real world problems(in it's current form for most). And it has effectively no avenue to ever being supported by major governments because lol, shocker, they would rather regulate money. The thing about it all is that it h…

Ok. While you're in denial - its being adopted by social media platforms (twitter), ecommerce platforms (Amazon), its on corporate balance sheets (tesla, spacex, microstrategy, some others), all major payment vendors, banks (JMP), and something like 70 million americans, hundreds of millions globally own it and disagree with you. Its useful to have a money system that isnt abused by central banks, destroying what you…

JPM? If Jamie getting into it it can’t be too bad, but I looked just now and find this,

“I'm not a bitcoin supporter,” Dimon said during The Wall Street Journal CEO Council summit on Tuesday. “I don't care about bitcoin. I have no interest in it.”

Edit: sorry, I got the wrong bank (jpm vs jmp). Thanks for clarifying below.

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