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TSMC eyes Germany as possible location for first Europe chip plant

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Re: TSMC eyes Germany as possible location for first Europe chip plant

#311

Post by Y-bar »

stingraycharles wrote: post #307
_ph_ wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Tesla story is widely exaggerated. So far they have gotten basically every approval they asked for quite quickly. Local politics is quite supportive of the project, because it brings a lot of jobs in an industrial-weak region. It is also not clear that the project has actually suffered any significant delays beyond some of the time plans being overly optimistic. There has been some attempts to block this project…

> There has been some attempts to block this project from some environmental groups and some groups posing as environmental, but their their injunctions have been quickly cast away by the courts. Tangent: how can environmental groups be against an electric car manufacturer? You would think they’re somewhat fighting the same fight?

A couple of general examples why environmental groups may have concerns, none specific to the Tesla story in particular, but I know have happened elsewhere:

- The location has a unique/endangered flora or fauna and building in the specific location would be a significant blow to those species.

- Ground water issues when a large area is paved, roofed or otherwise covered.

- Noise/light pollution affecting nearby residential and/or environmental areas.

- Increased traffic though connecting roads causing related issues.

It's as far as I see never about the specific industry building in the place, but rather the local effects of building in the area that need to be addressed.

Re: TSMC eyes Germany as possible location for first Europe chip plant

#313

Post by arrrg »

suction wrote: post #76
Heliosmaster wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those companies involved in semiconductor industry, where machines cost 100M usd EACH... People are just a rounding error. Should we hire 100 more? 1000 more? Whatever

Keep in mind that for a high-profile engineer or lead who expects to make 400k at least per year, the company would actually have to pay him 800k to make that much net. Labor cost in Germany is sky high. That times a thousand is not insignificant.

That‘s different from the US how exactly?

$800k/year in San Francisco as a single is $436k/year net. In Germany that’s $431k/year net.

You should argue with lower (more realistic) salaries. Social insurance (including health insurance, pension) is capped, meaning if you earn above a certain level you won’t have to pay any more. This means that those aspects play a diminutive role (about $15k) at your named salary level.

Re: TSMC eyes Germany as possible location for first Europe chip plant

#314

Post by username90 »

pomian wrote: post #312

I'm wondering about Italy. They have an established industrial base. They manufacture a surprising amount of high tech, but don't brag about it like Germany. Many good European neighbours to provide a broad range of skilled workers and researchers.

Italy is tech hostile like most of southern Europe, engineers are paid horribly compared to other professions so they usually leave north.

Re: TSMC eyes Germany as possible location for first Europe chip plant

#315

Post by MangoCoffee »

NicoJuicy wrote: post #241
xadhominemx wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would the locations of those research organizations matter?

Because while TSMC is production, the innovation happens mostly with those companies.

TSMC's innovation on production is impressive as well like the on chip water cooling.

https://www.extremetech.com/computing/324625-tsmc-mulls-on-c...

Re: TSMC eyes Germany as possible location for first Europe chip plant

#316

Post by MangoCoffee »

dirtyid wrote: post #8

Wonder how much TSMC Biontech vaccine deal influenced decision. Assume some level of gov involvement considering Germany was annoyed that US car manufactures got first dibs during shortage.

>TSMC Biontech vaccine deal influenced decision

that'll be really stupid to build billion dollar fab just because of that. Japan can sell/donate AZ vaccine since they have a deal with AZ and American can sell moderna which Taiwan bought. either way, it is a really stupid business decision if that's case.

Re: TSMC eyes Germany as possible location for first Europe chip plant

#317

Post by pkaye »

oezi wrote: post #301
ulfw wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"A decent mostly free health system" Where in Germany is that? You either pay a lot for private insurance (especially when you get old) or you pay a lot for state-backed insurance (which is a lot if you earn above average as most techies do).

Since insurance is capped at around 5k salary you will at most pay 15% of that (750 EUR) for health insurance per month in the universal insurance system. If you make higher salaries then you won't be affected.

> Since insurance is capped at around 5k salary you will at most pay 15% of that (750 EUR) for health insurance per month in the universal insurance system.

Does the employer pay any of that? Is that the total for the entire family?

Re: TSMC eyes Germany as possible location for first Europe chip plant

#318

Post by arwhatever »

grlass wrote: post #27
ipnon wrote: post #5

TSMC is really the keystone for everything else done that ends up getting talked about on this website. They are constantly at the bleeding edge of computer manufacture and pushing it further still. We should feel some sense of amazement to be alive still in the middle of the computer revolution.

Not to mention the people who design many of the machines that TSMC use in their plants: ASML. "The mirrors guiding this light, made of sandwiched layers of silicon and molybdenum, are ground so precisely that, if scaled to the size of Germany, they would have no bumps bigger than a millimetre" https://www.economist.com/business/2020/02/29/how-asml-becam... >

How big would the bumps be if the layers were scaled to the size of Texas? :-)

Re: TSMC eyes Germany as possible location for first Europe chip plant

#319

Post by adwn »

artemonster wrote: post #310
adwn wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get that, but you wrote: > the very idea of simulating circuits is a mine field of patents and you'd be sued out of existence Do you think a startup selling a new HDL simulator is any more at risk of getting sued than any other software-based startup? Not trying to be combative, I'm genuinely curious.

Yes. Happened twice? already

Really? Wow! Do you happen to remember their names?

Re: TSMC eyes Germany as possible location for first Europe chip plant

#320

Post by totalZero »

stingraycharles wrote: post #306
suction wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Might be true, but in Germany, the salary you pay to your employee is also about 1% of all the labor cost for him or her. Which is hyperbole, of course, but Germany is one of those countries where the actual net payout is usually significantly less than 50% of the salary the company provides. I'm not criticising it as I think Germany is a good example of a well-working system but net salaries are low for most.

Which other European country would you suggest? I mean, if ASML can thrive in The Netherlands, surely Germany must be fine for TSMC?

(Ignoring the comparative suitability of European countries) It bears mentioning that TSMC and ASML are fundamentally different businesses in terms of their clientele, costs, inputs, institutional knowledge, sales volume, and other key characteristics. They operate at very different stages of the semiconductor supply chain.
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