Just as an aside, a game like this with deep algorithmic complexity but trivial graphics seems like a natural fit for a functional language like Scala or Haskell. I wonder why Tarn chose C++ instead. Was it just out of familiarity? With his background in math I'd imagine he'd be very comfortable in an FP language.
The Brilliance of Dwarf Fortress
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Re: The Brilliance of Dwarf Fortress
#72Earlier quoted context omitted.
Dwarf Fortress has a level of micro-complexity that I wish Civilization had. I think there is a niche -- albeit probably a very small one -- for more super-hardcore strategy games in a variety of settings and genres. Folks like me would love to play a game like Civilization and have incredibly rich, complicated diplomacy and trade and other issues that simulate, as closely as possible, real-world geopolitical issues.…
While I have never played it, I have heard good things about the complexity of the Europa Universalis series. IF author Adam Cadre wrote a mini-review of it a few years ago: http://adamcadre.ac/calendar/10898.html
Have also heard good things. Given that I keep hearing them, I think it's time I got off my butt and checked it out!
Re: The Brilliance of Dwarf Fortress
#73Some notes: First, these guys are the real hackers. Not Carmack, Woz, Bill, or Zuck, or all the super-cool guys that made the bucks and then coasted (technically). These guys are living the life just because they love it. They're a much better representation of the inner hacker in all of us than those stories of riches and fame. I got the impression they would continue doing this no matter what their financial circum…
Woz isn't a real hacker?
Disagree. Read up on him.
Re: The Brilliance of Dwarf Fortress
#74Being a Nethack fan who has also lost countless hours managing civilizations, space fleets, cities, insect colonies, zombie apocalypse survivors' camps, I have three words to say: Must... not... play...
Dwarf Fortress sounds to me like nethack in its difficulty but unlike nethack in its endlessness. You can play all you want, but there will be no end!
a fusion between nethack and minecraft (and the sims) is a good description I feel.
Re: The Brilliance of Dwarf Fortress
#75Just as an aside, a game like this with deep algorithmic complexity but trivial graphics seems like a natural fit for a functional language like Scala or Haskell. I wonder why Tarn chose C++ instead. Was it just out of familiarity? With his background in math I'd imagine he'd be very comfortable in an FP language.
Dwarf fortress was started in 2002. Scala didn't even exist then did it?
Re: The Brilliance of Dwarf Fortress
#76Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have not played Dwarf Fortress, but is the game really so processor intensive that a 1 GHz dual-core iPad 2 (with GPU) could not keep up?
My 3.2 GhZ Dual Core system chokes at times with it, so yes. The biggest catch is that the core of the game is not multi-threaded (though graphics may be depending on config). The throughput of a single processor core is the most important factor in the simulation's performance. The iPad, while nice for the rather passive computations it's expected to perform, just doesn't have the muscle. Now assuming the game could…
I wonder how much of the simulation code could be appropriately ported to some sort of GPGPU (CUDA,OpenCL, etc) code. There'd be something nicely ironic about running an ascii-frontend game which required a serious GPU to play :)
Re: The Brilliance of Dwarf Fortress
#77Earlier quoted context omitted.
You might benefit from having played Nethack first. At least the culture shock will be a smaller.
I still can't get a grip on Nethack. I think I need to print out the list of key bindings in order to actually play.
POWDER is worth looking at as a starter - it feels like a scaled-down, more accessible NetHack with much of the the identification fun and unexpected combinations of interactions, and it's just as playable with a control pad, due to its GBA origins.
Re: The Brilliance of Dwarf Fortress
#78Just as an aside, a game like this with deep algorithmic complexity but trivial graphics seems like a natural fit for a functional language like Scala or Haskell. I wonder why Tarn chose C++ instead. Was it just out of familiarity? With his background in math I'd imagine he'd be very comfortable in an FP language.
Dwarf fortress was started in 2002. Scala didn't even exist then did it?
I didn't realize DF had been around so long. Scala wasn't introduced until 2003 and Haskell certainly wasn't nearly as mature then.
Re: The Brilliance of Dwarf Fortress
#79If you're ever worried that a feature will be too complex to implement, take a look at the ridiculous number of things Dwarf Fortress keeps track of and simulates some time. The article briefly touches on it, but like any look at Dwarf Fortress, it bared dips its toes in the water. Just a quick list off the top of my head... In world gen, it simulates geology and erosion, climate/biomes, growing civilizations, politi…
Remember, what one person can program when they're truly dedicated is a pretty incredible feat. And I wonder if the level of dedication he has demonstrated requires Asperger's. He has all of the classic symptoms, down to the the involuntary rocking. I've worked hard, and I've sacrificed a lot of my time to my work. But I'm not willing to sacrifice as much of my time as he has. And it's quite likely his life's work wi…
> And I wonder if the level of dedication he has demonstrated requires Asperger's.
People always jump to Asperger's the moment they hear this was all put together by one guy. It is as if they refuse to believe a normal person can have willpower enough to accomplish so much. It is simple: take a single step every day towards a single goal for several years.
Listen to his podcasts[1]. He is about as chill/normal/well-adjusted as people come.
Re: The Brilliance of Dwarf Fortress
#80DF does have very impressive depth and game mechanics. Unfortunately, its interface is one of the worst of any game I've ever played. It's a pity that DF isn't open source either, as then its interface problems would have long since been fixed. But, as it is, its lead (and only) developer doesn't seem to care enough to fix it himself.
> It's a pity that DF isn't open source either
I don't get that. It's totally donation-supported. Is it a pride thing? A control thing? I have already tried it out if it were in apt.