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Pronouncing non-English names for English speakers

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Re: Pronouncing non-English names for English speakers

#111
It always puzzles me how little knowledge of foreign languages the average English native speaker has.

Every time I hear an English speaker trying to pronounce Italian or Spanish words it generally ends up in a complete disaster (especially Italian). For instance, lots of folks haven't realized that the Great Vowel Shift happened, and so try to pronounce vowels as in English, without realizing that 99% of cases, that's wrong.

Also, English speakers have an incredibly hard time not only pronouncing but even understanding the whole concept of geminated consonants, which makes them funnily destroy Italian or Japanese names (gemination is especially important for Italian, where certain words are otherwise undistinguishable, se calo/callo, casa/cassa, pala/palla, ..).

Re: Pronouncing non-English names for English speakers

#112
post #8

"Non-English" -> Mainland Chinese. Well, it's a start I guess. Probably worth adding Vietnamese considering how few people in the US know how to pronounce "Nguyen".

Personally I can more or less do Nguyen but I still don't know how to pronounce Huynh.

Re: Pronouncing non-English names for English speakers

#113
post #102
post #40

One thing that has puzzled me about complaints about English speakers' pronunciation of transliterated Chinese words (the only topic of TFA), is why the speaker is blamed rather than the transliteration. If the official transliteration into the Roman alphabet leads to less accuracy in pronunciation than some other (for example see the second vs third columns in the table in TFA), then would it not make better sense f…

I wondered this too when learning Pinyin. I believe the reason is that while Pinyin's X and Q may sound like "sh" and "ch" to English speakers, they are actually different sounds (and contrast with the "sh" and "ch" sounds that also exist in Mandarin). That said, I still wonder why -ui was chosen for "wei", "shi" is pronounced "shr", "-ian" is pronounced "yen", etc... MPS-II seems much closer to intuitive pronunciati…

A Chinese teacher once told me that pinyin is based off Russian

Re: Pronouncing non-English names for English speakers

#114
Oddly enough, pronouncing non-German names is much easier for me as a German-native speaker as many sounds (in the linked github above) are pronounced the same in German as in e.g. Japanese (thus we'd always pronounce "a" as "ah" anyway or "i" as "ee"). I change how I pronounce letters for English, not for many other languages.

Re: Pronouncing non-English names for English speakers

#115
People are giving pronunciation tips for other languages in the comments, here are tips for polish. Polish often seems incomprehensible for english speakers because of the sheer amount of consonants though it actually flows quite nicely if you know the rules

'sz', 'cz' - those are equivalent to 'sh' (shop,shell) and 'ch' (chop, check)

'w' - it's a hard 'v' as in 'very', 'vary'. Always, no exceptions and never anything else, it's Ko-v-alski (Kowalski) and Le-v-ando-v-ski (Lewandowski). This is, I think, the most common mistake when reading polish names because english speakers often soften the 'w' to english 'w' as in 'when'/'why'

'Ł or ł' - that's the thing you think of when you see 'w' in english. It's the same sound as in 'when'/'why'/'when'. It's not a weird accent on 'L', for some reason we don't have 'v' in our alphabet and we moved 'v' sound to 'w' and 'w' sound to 'ł'

ó - it's called 'closed u', the same as normal, open u, pronounced as in 'put'/'dude'. The only difference between open and closed 'u' is in writing, none in speaking

y - a vowel, I don't think the sound exists in english but often 'yyyyyy...' in polish is used as 'ummmmm...' in english

ą, ć, ę, ń, ś, ź, ż - good luck ;)

One thing that makes polish a bit easier is that it's pronunciation is 98% consistent, you need to learn the sound of each letter or digraph once and it will never change so every polish person will pronounce even made-up words in the same way because there's only one way (you may write it incorrectly as in the open/closed u above, or ż/rz, but you will read it back correctly so just don't show anyone how you've written it :) )

Re: Pronouncing non-English names for English speakers

#116
> The vast majority of Chinese people in the world today writing their names using the English alphabet use a system called Pinyin

Pet peeve of man, but roman script is not the 'English alphabet'. Unless you think people write Spanish in 'English'...

If you want to be super pedantic and say you can write pinyin using the subset of the roman alphabet that English uses, I can in turn be even more pedantic and say Pinyin is meant to be written with tone marks.

Re: Pronouncing non-English names for English speakers

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the official transliteration into the Roman alphabet leads to less accuracy in pronunciation than some other (for example see the second vs third columns in the table in TFA), then would it not make better sense to adopt a more accurate transliteration instead? Can't be done. The Roman alphabet is a pretty good alphabet for Latin, but it isn't for Chinese, which has different sounds than are in Latin (or English…

Is there a resource (maybe with sound samples) that expands on the voiced/unvoiced vs aspirated/unaspirated distinction? It sounds fascinating, but I'm struggling to conceptualize it just with the text here.

Compare the t in 'stellar' vs the t in 'tell'.

Re: Pronouncing non-English names for English speakers

#118

My name is "Sander". It's a common Dutch calling name, related to the (baptismal, in my case) name Alexander. I have always introduced myself in the US as "sender", which is easy and fine to me, but not how you pronounce it in Dutch, where the "a" is more like in the English "hard" (I suppose). I don't care. Until my mom visited, who started calling out everyone in my sphere for mispronouncing my name, despite my ple…

I wonder if you can use a rhyme to help people. Sander, rhymes with wander (for Americans). Björk inspired me with her own brilliant rhyming word. I'll leave it up to you to discover what she uses: https://youtu.be/AGtMv-EQp20

For my own name, Ambroos (Dutch as well), I've yet to find a good English rhyming word. I've just settled with telling people to pronounce it as Ambrose. It's better than people turning it into Am-bruce. For TTS I sometimes use Ahmbrohs.

Re: Pronouncing non-English names for English speakers

#119
post #97

I was wondering if someone could comment on the pronunciation of "q" in Chinese (Mandarin). From time to time the advice that "q" is pronounced as "ch" pops up. While I have no issues with "q" sounding like "ch" in "quan", but it bothers me that the "q" in "qian" sounds nothing like "ch" to me. Thank you very much in advance! Edit: added "but", "to me".

Native Chinese speaker here.

I tried to tell the difference between "q" and "ch" here by pronouncing them. As the other comment noted, "ch" is actually a valid pinyin as well, so they are definitely different.

My observation is that for "q" your tongue tip is closer to your teeth and for "ch" your tongue tip is somewhere in the middle of the mouth. Hope that helps.

Re: Pronouncing non-English names for English speakers

#120

Not a native speaker, but at least in a Beijing accent, I wouldn't say that "Chen" rhymes with "fun." "Cheng" or "Zheng," or "Feng," sure, "fun" works as a comparison. "Chen," "Zhen," etc. would rhyme more with "pen" or "hen."

Yeah, I don't understand this one either. One of the first few names in this doc too.
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