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How Do You Keep a Subway from Flooding in the Age of Rising Seas? (2019)

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Re: How Do You Keep a Subway from Flooding in the Age of Rising Seas? (2019)

#41

Post by hef19898 »

jacquesm wrote: post #39
hef19898 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminds me of a documentary on the flood gates at the Port of Rotterdam. They are operated automatically, humans cannot trigger them (if memory serves well). Reasoning was, that operators live nearby and might tend to close them too soon and too often. Now you have to trust the system to have a proper balance between keeping the port open and protecting communities. Up to now the Rotterdam system seems to work reason…

And nobody needs to be worried about being fired for closing them 'for nothing'.

Exactly.

Re: How Do You Keep a Subway from Flooding in the Age of Rising Seas? (2019)

#42

Post by LinuxBender »

routerl wrote: post #26
baybal2 wrote: post #16

The Zhengzhou metro, one which got flooded, has blast doors in, and in between stations like most metros in the Bloc. The anger now is because despite millions spent on those blast doors, they were simply not activated. The shift chief of the metro was too afraid to stop the metro. The same for its very powerful flood defence pumps.

Do you have a source for that please?

I don't have a source for their statement specific to the doors, but here are some videos that capture how horrific events are unfolding in China the last few days. [1] I suspect finding documented sources of mishaps will be tricky as they will likely be moderated [2] once found.

[1] - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCT2kPBcD6tXn8TP_aV7BmgA/vid...

[2] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27949726

Re: How Do You Keep a Subway from Flooding in the Age of Rising Seas? (2019)

#43

Post by ant6n »

em-bee wrote: post #37
liotier wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they trade ugly surface volume occupation for being much cheaper. Flood resistance is a side-effect.

for someone who loves trains, above ground rails are not ugly

The trains aren't ugly, the concrete infrastructure is. (Note that elevated trains in the US often look much nicer because they use steel structures, something that isn't being built today).

Re: How Do You Keep a Subway from Flooding in the Age of Rising Seas? (2019)

#44

Post by ant6n »

LeoPanthera wrote: post #11
remarkEon wrote: post #9

> Sandy had made a mockery of the largest subway system in the world Is the New York subway really the largest subway in the world? I thought that trophy went to subways in Tokyo or Seoul.

It depends how you measure it. NYC has the most stations, 424. Shanghai has the most track, 743 km, and the most annual riders, 2834.69m.

It depends on who you ask.

Ask a New Yorker, and the NYC subway is the greatest in the world (oh and PATH is not part of the subway system, cuz it's not MTA and goes to New Jersey).

Also, NYC itself is the greatest city on the world. ;-)

Re: How Do You Keep a Subway from Flooding in the Age of Rising Seas? (2019)

#45

Post by LeoPanthera »

chrischen wrote: post #20
LeoPanthera wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends how you measure it. NYC has the most stations, 424. Shanghai has the most track, 743 km, and the most annual riders, 2834.69m.

A quick Google says the Tokyo metro moves over 3.3 billion a year.

Perhaps that number is for "rides" and not "people".

Re: How Do You Keep a Subway from Flooding in the Age of Rising Seas? (2019)

#46

Post by [deleted] »

swader999 wrote: post #35
spodek wrote: post #33

We can't change the past so have decades to centuries of climate change to handle, but we can do a lot more to stop future contributions to climate change. The biggest effect anyone can have, beyond fewer kids, less meat, and flying less, is learning to lead others, which multiplies our effects. Of course, to lead others we have to lead ourselves first, which means fewer kids, less meat, flying less, and all those, a…

Meanwhile CCP going to extreme measures to reverse their one child policy. Last week, banning tutoring to decrease the cost of raising a child.

[deleted]

Re: How Do You Keep a Subway from Flooding in the Age of Rising Seas? (2019)

#47

Post by IshKebab »

Frost1x wrote: post #32
remarkEon wrote: post #9

> Sandy had made a mockery of the largest subway system in the world Is the New York subway really the largest subway in the world? I thought that trophy went to subways in Tokyo or Seoul.

Not sure about biggest but I will say NY subway is far more complex than Tokyo's and I'm a native English speaker and speak no Japanese. Getting to the correct train in Tokyo was far easier, likely because there was less rerouting than what seems like perpetual issues in NY's subway due to aging infrastructure.

Also NY's is the only system I've seen that has fast and slow trains on the same line. Definitely complicates things!

Re: How Do You Keep a Subway from Flooding in the Age of Rising Seas? (2019)

#48

Post by JCharante »

ant6n wrote: post #43
em-bee wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

for someone who loves trains, above ground rails are not ugly

The trains aren't ugly, the concrete infrastructure is. (Note that elevated trains in the US often look much nicer because they use steel structures, something that isn't being built today).

Roads are ugly too compared to a meadow. I'd rather have cars underground and human-powered vehicles and pedestrian only areas instead of roads.

Re: How Do You Keep a Subway from Flooding in the Age of Rising Seas? (2019)

#49

Post by JCharante »

andi999 wrote: post #13
publicola1990 wrote: post #8

Newer systems being built in Asia are avoiding subways/underground systems and preferring elevated systems. In fact during a major flood, the elevated railway was pretty much the only servicing transporting system in effect.

Which ones do you have in mind? All new lines in Shanghai are underground and so in a few other Chinese cities.

Hanoi's lines under construction are all elevated.

Re: How Do You Keep a Subway from Flooding in the Age of Rising Seas? (2019)

#50

Post by JCharante »

LeoPanthera wrote: post #45
chrischen wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A quick Google says the Tokyo metro moves over 3.3 billion a year.

Perhaps that number is for "rides" and not "people".

Same type of number as the one given for Shanghai, I doubt that subway system moves 2x the population of China every year worth of unique individuals.
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