A Victoria man has gone two decades without money • Hacker News Board

Re: A Victoria man has gone two decades without money

#161

Post by gimmeThaBeet » Sun, Jul 25, 2021, 4:52 PM UTC

booleandilemma wrote: post #78

This only works if not everyone in society does it. It’s easy for a lone person to ride on the backs of others, who are actually, you know, working for money, but if tomorrow we got rid of money society would collapse. With the way NYC is, I could quit my job tomorrow and mooch off others (SO many do). I’d be uncomfortable, but I’d live. If everyone did this there wouldn’t be a NYC anymore.

I agree, if your grand answer to the torments of society is to just rely on that exact society to sustain you, it's not a sustainable answer. Even just something as simple as the cigarettes he scavenges, where does he think those are coming from? Like I'm sure you could grow some sort of nicotiana in BC, but it's not exactly North Carolina, and he's not exactly Thoreau. It's kind of stunning how close this guy is to Diogenes. Hates the Athens marketplace, never leaves (until captured by pirates).

Tangential, but I tend to feel this way about a segment of van life philosophy, it's sort of the next level. People want to escape the drudgery of conventional society, so try to be a van life influencer, and have your life hinge on a large (van/bus) vehicle running on refined petroleum, probably the avatar of global industrialization. It relies exclusively on people who specifically do what you won't.

Re: A Victoria man has gone two decades without money

#162

Post by mikem170 » Sun, Jul 25, 2021, 4:54 PM UTC

s1artibartfast wrote: post #131

mikem170 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before money people traded favors. You help me butcher my cow, I help you rebuild your house (which was more work then the cow), so maybe later on your brother helps fix my plow knowing he'll eventually get something in return, and now I am trading favors with you and your brother, etc. This bonded people. It would have been insulting to say "here are two chickens for your lamb, we are now even, I owe you nothing eve…

Before money, people traded services and power. In this sense, money is just an accounting tool to track the same

Not exactly the same. Money changed a lot of things, much more than just an accounting tool.

The use of money drastically changed the scale in which goods and services could be traded.

Before money people kept track of who owed who a favor amongst the people they dealt with. Family, friends, and others learned who they could trust not to be a mooch.

Money made possible much larger scale projects, enabling the industrial revolution to proceed at breakneck speed, the ability to wage world wars, and a modern global finance system treating everyone and everything as fungible, with credit scores replacing personal bonds of trust, billionaire leveraged buyouts and market manipulations, consumer/debt culture, sanctions, etc.

Re: A Victoria man has gone two decades without money

#163

Post by MeinBlutIstBlau » Sun, Jul 25, 2021, 4:55 PM UTC

noduerme wrote: post #159

MeinBlutIstBlau wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is incredibly ironic that the very people that claim the system is bad, effectively cannot survive on their non-conformist lifestyle without the current system. In a way though, it's no different than a religion. Priests cannot effectively survive without parishioners giving them money. Priests likewise preach things about the modern era of morality are bad and we must change them. So if you think of these vagabon…

Traveling Buddhist monks in Southeast Asia live solely on donations. They don't necessarily have an individual relationship with "parishioners" any more than this particular hippie does (probably less). Whether it's beneficial for anyone for too much of society's resources to be allocated to the practice is a question. If you view spiritual comfort and the pursuit of karma as a kind of social glue, then some amount o…

The only difference is, at least in my experience, many hippies don't actually do the things necessary to create change. They are individuals touting a known consensus. It's the reason why green measures generally fail in politics but stupid things like protecting the second amendment are upheld strongly. There is no centralized institution to fight for these beliefs. This is why you see the Freedom From Religion Foundation actively fighting against many religious bills. It has a goal, the ability to garner funds, and a means to support people to achieve them. Most hippies are just getting by and eventually wake up realizing they need a job to survive once the donations wear out because they don't have a stable supply of people believing in their individual cause.

Re: A Victoria man has gone two decades without money

#164

Post by xondono » Sun, Jul 25, 2021, 4:55 PM UTC

Aeolun wrote: post #107

helsinkiandrew wrote: post #74

I’m not sure living in the city off handouts, charity, and free tax payer provided facilities exactly promotes his no money philosophy. His life relies on the things he despises, if the economic collapse he predicts comes he will be among the first to starve to death. Go into the wild and grow/hunt food or trade some skill - the post money society doesn’t need philosopher poets scavenging cigarettes from trash cans

> the post money society doesn’t need philosopher poets scavenging cigarettes from trash cans Supporting the odd philosopher poet is the exact function of society, in my opinion. Some good things come out of having them that do not come out of having another corporate drone.

> Some good things come out of having them that do not come out of having another corporate drone.

False dichotomy much?

Name one odd philosopher poet that has brought anything to the table

Re: A Victoria man has gone two decades without money

#165

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Jul 25, 2021, 4:59 PM UTC

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #111

Aeolun wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the post money society doesn’t need philosopher poets scavenging cigarettes from trash cans Supporting the odd philosopher poet is the exact function of society, in my opinion. Some good things come out of having them that do not come out of having another corporate drone.

> Supporting the odd philosopher poet is the exact function of society, in my opinion. Have you considered that society should also be the natural predator of the odd philosopher poet so that their numbers do not become problematic for their environment?

[deleted]

Re: A Victoria man has gone two decades without money

#166

Post by totony » Sun, Jul 25, 2021, 5:03 PM UTC

kypro wrote: post #16

I don't see how taking from everyone and giving very little in return is moral. If everyone did this we'd all live in a far worse world. This is basically the antithesis of my own moral code to give more than I receive. I relate to him in that I value money very little as a medium to facilitate my own happiness, but I still want to make a lot of it so I can give more. He seems sweet though. I think I would get on wit…

>This is basically the antithesis of my own moral code to give more than I receive.

This is mathematically impossible to apply universally. Can it be a moral code if it can't be universal?

Although this might be applicable if you live in a wealthy circle and there are poor circles.

Re: A Victoria man has gone two decades without money

#167

Post by noduerme » Sun, Jul 25, 2021, 5:03 PM UTC

helsinkiandrew wrote: post #74

I’m not sure living in the city off handouts, charity, and free tax payer provided facilities exactly promotes his no money philosophy. His life relies on the things he despises, if the economic collapse he predicts comes he will be among the first to starve to death. Go into the wild and grow/hunt food or trade some skill - the post money society doesn’t need philosopher poets scavenging cigarettes from trash cans

I've heard the nobility of homelessness and joblessness expressed as an ethos countless times by people who wouldn't care for the work of living off-grid. I happen to work in a town with some of the highest taxes in the country that's also one of the most attractive places for indigent campers. The park across from where I live has become a tent city. I get the pleasure of paying for its "upkeep" while also having to step over needles and human waste every day. A natural extension of the philosophy that people who work for a living are amoral slaves, and that only the indigent are noble is, of course, that it's permissible to steal anything any worker drone has. When I got to the part in this article about his glee at erecting tent cities I really became disgusted. What's beautiful about it? It produces nothing of lasting value. It erodes the physical and social landscape. At best as a society itself, it's a drum circle, getting high, talking about the universe without doing anything much, and escaping. What future is there for anyone who wants all the parks filled with tent cities?

The one thing you can't do without money, without an economy, is take care of anyone else. You can give them things that other people gave you - castaways of castaways. But you can't produce anything new to help anyone. So what claims to be cooperative and egalitarian is really just parasitic.

Maybe it's not surprising that the largest effort made on behalf of parasitism is its attempt to disguise itself as something moral.

Re: A Victoria man has gone two decades without money

#168

Post by MajorBee » Sun, Jul 25, 2021, 5:06 PM UTC

Aaargh20318 wrote: post #4

mjfl wrote: post #2

he still uses money. Just indirectly, spent by others. He lives off the charity of other people.

Exactly. If you want to live without money, that should be doable, but this isn't it. You can live on a homestead in the middle of nowhere, grow your own crops, raise your own cattle, barter with neighbours and be completely self-sufficient without money. This guy just lets other spend money for him.

Wouldn't you still have to pay property taxes (in money) on that homestead?

Re: A Victoria man has gone two decades without money

#169

Post by imtringued » Sun, Jul 25, 2021, 5:07 PM UTC

>The pandemic has made the idea of economic collapse easier for the Average Joes to imagine, he says. As a result, the time could be ripe for considering alternatives to the status quo. Ideas previously believed too radical for consideration have already entered the mainstream, like a universal basic income.

I don't understand this. The idea of economic collapse? Did people miss the biggest economic collapse that just happened last year? It's already over. What could possibly be worse for an economy than a permanent lockdown? It's absurd how people are scared of full employment.

Re: A Victoria man has gone two decades without money

#170

Post by nwienert » Sun, Jul 25, 2021, 5:09 PM UTC

Aeolun wrote: post #124

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Supporting the odd philosopher poet is the exact function of society, in my opinion. Have you considered that society should also be the natural predator of the odd philosopher poet so that their numbers do not become problematic for their environment?

I mean, to some extend they’re self regulating. Few people have the stomach for a life like that so the total amount of philosopher poets is likely a function of your total population.

How many crazed homeless drug addicts per philosopher poet do you find acceptable? Is it somewhere near the current 10k to 1 level? Of course you are willing to patronize a cabal of homeless on your block as well.