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Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

theatlantic.com

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Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#611

Post by dcow »

blackgirldev wrote: post #587
dcow wrote: post #579

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it telling that stronger resistance is met in the younger years where the costs are paid by society and not the individuals? I deeply disagree that it’s the same set of individuals. Maybe I’m N=1 but I want to take focus off solving things at the college level and shift to solving things at the community level, explicitly not wholesale rejection of any program that benefits the disparaged. Rather a call to use…

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1998-06-07-980607... Speaking of primary, elementary level perspective… The school in question is where I went prior to its closing. After I graduated, white families decided to close a very new, nice school because they just didn’t want their kids among black students. Even where there is money and great support, whites just don’t want to have any funding to go to black kid…

Right I agree this is deeply fucked and I think we’re saying basically the same thing about how problematic the primary schooling politics and funding setup is. We’ve seen the same.. atrocities. We just disagree that AA is effective at solving this deeply ingrained racist behavior. I’d rather see laws and policy that e.g. evenly distribute school funding to prevent racist neighborhood dynamics. We need to attack and expose this bullshit at its roots.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#612

Post by dcow »

UncleMeat wrote: post #582
dcow wrote: post #579

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it telling that stronger resistance is met in the younger years where the costs are paid by society and not the individuals? I deeply disagree that it’s the same set of individuals. Maybe I’m N=1 but I want to take focus off solving things at the college level and shift to solving things at the community level, explicitly not wholesale rejection of any program that benefits the disparaged. Rather a call to use…

> I deeply disagree that it’s the same set of individuals. I can only share my experience, but in my case it is literally the same people. The same organizers and leaders. There are surely people out there who support one and not the other, but I don't observe them acting . When I see the people at the school board meetings, it is the same faces opposing initiatives trying to get more kids on free-and-reduced-lunch i…

Sorry I meant entirely the same set of individuals. I have no doubt there’s overlap. In short I agree with you: fuck people who gerrymander school districts because they don’t want their kids to experience diversity. My point has more been that opposing college AA is not synonymous with opposing all instances of programs that aim to help the underprivileged. I just think by the time AA is relevant it is simply often too late.

My point about the parents sending their kids to magnet schools is that they’re kinda cancerous turds. They are actively resisting true diversity while at the same time claiming to be woke fucking anti racist saints. Fuck that attitude.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#613

Post by flippinburgers »

thethimble wrote: post #570
flippinburgers wrote: post #568

Khan Academy offers VERY nice, free resources for practicing. Throwing out the SAT is the wrong move.

Isn’t the whole idea of practicing for a test that is supposed to measure aptitude wrong? If not it seems like the test is only really measuring the degree to which a student has practiced for it. Is that desirable?

I strongly feel that part of aptitude is effort.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#614

Post by throwaway210222 »

dcow wrote: post #577
throwaway210222 wrote: post #547

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In his opinion these … students would be better served at … colleges with … less demanding programs where they could celebrate more success. The author is missing the point of this education. For almost ALL students the aim is to get a prestigious certificate as this is the gateway to a upper middle class lifestyle. The education is largely irrelevant. (Most are going to end up as real estate agents of financial ad…

You should read Sowell to get the full picture. Yes, in many cases a prestigious college degree is just a social signal. But that doesn’t materially change anything. Let’s concede for a moment that all college degrees are simply a ticket to an upper middle class lifestyle. Then that seems to imply the students receiving the degree were already essentially prepared for upper middle class lifestyle upon entrance to col…

> The challenge is solving the challenge.

Oh yea, this is what should be done.

And like many other problems, I assure you its not going to be fixed. Far too many parties prefer the status quo - including the disadvantaged kids.

I hope I am wrong.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#615

Post by zdbrandon »

908B64B197 wrote: post #395
klipt wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you're Asian, in which case declaring your race will lower your admission chances even relative to white people.

I recall hearing in casual conversation "ohh this guy is Asian and went to X so you know he's good". I was shocked. It must create a weird dynamic to have two identifiable groups where you know one got there on merit alone, while the other one maybe benefited from a quota.

Merit alone? In America?

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#616

Post by UncleMeat »

dcow wrote: post #612
UncleMeat wrote: post #582

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I deeply disagree that it’s the same set of individuals. I can only share my experience, but in my case it is literally the same people. The same organizers and leaders. There are surely people out there who support one and not the other, but I don't observe them acting . When I see the people at the school board meetings, it is the same faces opposing initiatives trying to get more kids on free-and-reduced-lunch i…

Sorry I meant entirely the same set of individuals. I have no doubt there’s overlap. In short I agree with you: fuck people who gerrymander school districts because they don’t want their kids to experience diversity. My point has more been that opposing college AA is not synonymous with opposing all instances of programs that aim to help the underprivileged. I just think by the time AA is relevant it is simply often…

And I’m telling you, at the actual school board meetings it is entirely the same set of people.

The people you are complaining about don’t show up on either side.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#617

Post by dnautics »

bayesian_horse wrote: post #543
dnautics wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what? did you RTFA? The author gives an argument based on concrete evidence that the SAT helps underrepresented minorities, and states there ALREADY is a pathway (that also lots of underrepresented minorities use) that avoids the SAT, the biggest problem being that statewide guidance counselors are not instructed on the existence of that pathway.

Intention is not evidence of success.

no, but actual flux of humans through those programs is. I feel like you still haven't read the article.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#618

Post by rayiner »

cloudfifty wrote: post #551
rayiner wrote: post #383

What I find very odd about this is the assumption that kids in challenging circumstances would have more problem with test prep than with keeping up their GPA. Poor people can afford test prep. Stuyvesant, NYC’s selective admission high school, has 50% of students living in poverty, and a 1300+ average SAT score. A couple of thousand dollars one time is something most Americans can scrape together. Gaming GPA is much…

> My wife and I carefully manage her younger step siblings’ course schedules to maximize GPA. We schedule meetings with professors, counselors, schedule retakes and extra credit, etc. That's like another planet for me. Should kids really need to focus on their career so early?

What else would the kids be doing?

America has to compete with Asia now. The self-indulgent culture that arose from America being unchallenged on the world stage will have to come to an end.

15 years ago, I would have agreed with you because I thought the Asian system couldn’t produce innovators like the American system. China has proved that wrong.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#619

Post by faeriechangling »

jjeaff wrote: post #583
nonethewiser wrote: post #529

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is why chosing by merit is the only fair way

There are several problems with choosing by merit. One, you have to define merit and whether it really is merit. If a rich kid scores higher because he got an expensive private tutor that taught him how to do better on the test really more meritorious than the smarter poor kid who scored lower because she didn't have said private tutor? Second, you have historically marginalized groups that lose out because their anc…

I don't support getting rid of standardized tests to undermine the rich because standardized testing REDUCED the wealthy's grip on higher education which before standardized testing was very much restricted to the wealthy.

Even in a racial quota based admission system, the elimination of standardized testing from each racial "tranche" only helps the wealthy. It's simply more expensive to fill a admission full of impressive extracurriculars and such than to do well on a test. Standardized testing was brought in to favor the intelligent over the wealthy to begin with, and while test scores and wealth are correlated this is in part because the entire point was to give better testers access to wealth and test taking ability is heritable.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#620

Post by stale2002 »

karpierz wrote: post #206
stale2002 wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It requires outside investment. So if you engage in more and better education, above and beyond the education that one is engaging in school, then that person will be better at education? Yes, of course. Just like if someone practices basketball, outside of their school team, and hires a basketball tutor, then they would become better at basketball. Obviously, if someone spends more of their own time on something,…

The investment GP is talking about is money.

Buying an expensive basketball coach will probably make you better at basketball.

Why would that surprise you?

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