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When will we get secure desktop OSes? (2018)

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Re: When will we get secure desktop OSes? (2018)

#72

I don't understand the responses in this thread. Does nobody want an OS with a permissions system where you can reliably control access to resources? Or strong app sandboxing by default to keep chrome from sniffing your files (allegedly, this is virus scanning)? There isn't any loss of freedom with those as long as your super user can modify it all - its a gain of freedom in that you can have some control over what y…

I want an os that's useful, streamlined, and can run games without adding an asterisk. That basically locks me into Windows. I've heard lots of great excuses for why things are this way and noted the progress Steam has made in pushing forward gaming on Linux but ultimately there's always a wall or a compromise in what mainstream programs I can use and I'm not the sort of person who can feel good because the worse exp…

That's fair, except for utility in my usage Windows runs less of the programs I want.

Linux users tend to prioritise software freedom, digital privacy, customisability, hackability and longevity, so will settle for it being a little less streamlined and being able to run 15k out of 18k Steam games, which is more than enough games for my enjoyment. Each to their own.

Re: When will we get secure desktop OSes? (2018)

#73

If you want to get there, I wouldn't start from here. The problem is, from the status quo we have today it's hard to see how we'd get to a point of security without sacrificing general purpose computing. After all, it's either possible for the user to promote an application to equal the power of the OS, or it isn't. Oh, sure, you could make it mandatory to ask permission before getting that power. But many security p…

There are different methods of security, one where you assume the user is trusted but that the programs are not and one where you assume the user and the programs are not trusted. iOS is the second version. Linux with flatpak and SELinux is the first one. It is certainly possible to secure Linux a lot while still allowing the user to tweak whatever they want. There is a tool called flatseal which lets you adjust the…

Well, the problem is that many desktop workflows require data passing through many apps. How would you do that on the iOS model?

Re: When will we get secure desktop OSes? (2018)

#74

Qubes OS is perfectly usable if you are a technical person and describes itself as "reasonably secure" https://www.qubes-os.org/ . They take the security challenges of all the layers of the onion pretty seriously and have built a system that works well for many threat models. You do have to put up with some inconvenience (eg copying and pasting between vms etc) but you get a lot for that.

This [1] is a good read.

[1] https://invisiblethingslab.com/resources/2014/Software_compa...

Re: When will we get secure desktop OSes? (2018)

#75

It seems to me that a secure OS would be an OS I wouldn't care to use. It would be so locked down that I couldn't really tinker with it.

Have a look at Qubes OS. It's a joy to use for me.

It's a great project and their articles and blogposts are always make for a good read.

Re: When will we get secure desktop OSes? (2018)

#76

It seems to me that a secure OS would be an OS I wouldn't care to use. It would be so locked down that I couldn't really tinker with it.

The devices and services I use are sufficient for my threat model.

All I can do is mitigate the risks that I'm worried about the most. Those threats aren't such that I'd need to not use those devices/services. If they were I would simply not use them.

Re: When will we get secure desktop OSes? (2018)

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like many here, I’m sure, I would love to be able to physically disable my camera and microphone somehow but do not have that option.

https://puri.sm/security/

That’s cool! I could envision buying something like that someday, but in the meantime and for the past 10 years I was hoping to do it with a MacBook Pro and an iPhone.

Re: When will we get secure desktop OSes? (2018)

#78

I don't understand the responses in this thread. Does nobody want an OS with a permissions system where you can reliably control access to resources? Or strong app sandboxing by default to keep chrome from sniffing your files (allegedly, this is virus scanning)? There isn't any loss of freedom with those as long as your super user can modify it all - its a gain of freedom in that you can have some control over what y…

No, we don't. Stuff you don't trust and can't be bothered to publish source and engage with the community belongs in the browser. Native code is a privilege reserved for people who are friendly. As you can see from iOS and Android all the sandboxing does is screw over people working in good faith (termux, ish) and doesn't stop malware.

Re: When will we get secure desktop OSes? (2018)

#79
It's funny to see this on HN now - I think this is a real issue, particularly as a dev with all the random libraries we download and run (cough npm cough), and I just got finished with protecting myself against this issue.

What I did: my MacBook Pro now has two separate MacOS installations, each on a separate partition with full disk encryption/filevault enabled, and separate passwords/encryption keys. One is strictly 'personal' - it has the bare minimum of software installed, and everything remotely sensitive (email, banking, passwords) happens here. The other is where I code and install whatever I want, and nothing personal touches this OS.

It can be inconvenient during the day, but I also treat my smartphone as a secure device (iOS) so there's that.

Re: When will we get secure desktop OSes? (2018)

#80

I don't understand the responses in this thread. Does nobody want an OS with a permissions system where you can reliably control access to resources? Or strong app sandboxing by default to keep chrome from sniffing your files (allegedly, this is virus scanning)? There isn't any loss of freedom with those as long as your super user can modify it all - its a gain of freedom in that you can have some control over what y…

I want it, but not bad enough to live with the various inconveniences.
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