A Victoria man has gone two decades without money • Hacker News Board

Re: A Victoria man has gone two decades without money

#61

Post by mikem170 » Sun, Jul 25, 2021, 1:57 PM UTC

kangnkodos wrote: post #17

He wants everyone to suddenly stop using money. If that happened, who would wash the dishes? Many communes have failed over this exact issue. They go on for several years with several people, usually women, making the sacrifice and doing what needs to be done. But eventually, the people who do the dishes get fed up and stop, or leave. And then the whole thing collapses. The alternative is for the leaders to have some…

Before money people traded favors. You help me butcher my cow, I help you rebuild your house (which was more work then the cow), so maybe later on your brother helps fix my plow knowing he'll eventually get something in return, and now I am trading favors with you and your brother, etc. This bonded people. It would have been insulting to say "here are two chickens for your lamb, we are now even, I owe you nothing evermore!"

Money originated as a way for kings to pay troops, who operated outside these village economies.

Money has made it possible for us to build impersonal systems at gigantic scale. It seems to have paved the way for more stuff, but it does come with some downsides.

Debt, The First 5,000 Years [0] by David Graeber talks about this stuff.

[0] https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/david-graeber-debt

Re: A Victoria man has gone two decades without money

#62

Post by guerrilla » Sun, Jul 25, 2021, 2:01 PM UTC

kangnkodos wrote: post #17

He wants everyone to suddenly stop using money. If that happened, who would wash the dishes? Many communes have failed over this exact issue. They go on for several years with several people, usually women, making the sacrifice and doing what needs to be done. But eventually, the people who do the dishes get fed up and stop, or leave. And then the whole thing collapses. The alternative is for the leaders to have some…

I hate arguments like this. People who want clean dishes will do dishes. And no there's no free-rider problem because they don't have to do dishes for anyone else.

Re: A Victoria man has gone two decades without money

#63

Post by PragmaticPulp » Sun, Jul 25, 2021, 2:02 PM UTC

boomlinde wrote: post #55

kangnkodos wrote: post #17

He wants everyone to suddenly stop using money. If that happened, who would wash the dishes? Many communes have failed over this exact issue. They go on for several years with several people, usually women, making the sacrifice and doing what needs to be done. But eventually, the people who do the dishes get fed up and stop, or leave. And then the whole thing collapses. The alternative is for the leaders to have some…

Haven't you ever done your own dishes? I use something so that it gets dirty, so I'll wash it off. The jobs "no one wants to do" is usually work people are happy to do for themselves or occasionally their friends and family. The idea that "no one wants to do them" embeds the presumption that you spend eight hours a day doing just that. Of course no one wants to do that!

> Haven't you ever done your own dishes? I use something so that it gets dirty, so I'll wash it off.

Dishes is just one example. You may wash your own dishes, but did you buy those dishes from someone who was selling them as their job?

Do you grow all of your own food? Do you also sew your own clothes? Build your own shelter? Engineer your own transportation and manufacture your own iPhone?

The truth is that a society in which everyone is self-sufficient can’t look anything like modern society. Most of the advancements we take for granted are made possible by monetary exchange and people working in specialized roles in focused industries.

And for what it’s worth, back in college I had several roommates who clearly demonstrated that not everyone is willing to do their own dishes.

Re: A Victoria man has gone two decades without money

#64

Post by PragmaticPulp » Sun, Jul 25, 2021, 2:04 PM UTC

guerrilla wrote: post #62

kangnkodos wrote: post #17

He wants everyone to suddenly stop using money. If that happened, who would wash the dishes? Many communes have failed over this exact issue. They go on for several years with several people, usually women, making the sacrifice and doing what needs to be done. But eventually, the people who do the dishes get fed up and stop, or leave. And then the whole thing collapses. The alternative is for the leaders to have some…

I hate arguments like this. People who want clean dishes will do dishes. And no there's no free-rider problem because they don't have to do dishes for anyone else.

> People who want clean dishes will do dishes.

And people who want to eat will farm their own food? And people who want medicine will craft their own medications?

Self-sufficiency and moneyless societies are pure fantasy, unless they include giving up all modern amenities. I don’t think these people really want to return to the days of hunter gatherer lifestyles or even the days of homesteading.

It’s an extreme amount of work to be self-sufficient.

Re: A Victoria man has gone two decades without money

#65

Post by guerrilla » Sun, Jul 25, 2021, 2:08 PM UTC

nsb1 wrote: post #9

inawarminister wrote: post #6

This guy is a monk. So that's how they got invented the first time, huh. Well, if he teaches others what he know and they emulate him, while the general populace tolerate and support them, a new ascetic movement would be made easily. Still, my heart is with his estranged SO and their children. Ascetics can't support others that well after all.

Just so long as he doesn't teach too many others - this sort of thing doesn't scale well.

It scaled fine in India and China. That's exactly what Buddhism was. They worked though, just not in lay jobs.

Re: A Victoria man has gone two decades without money

#66

Post by ronyfadel » Sun, Jul 25, 2021, 2:09 PM UTC

b112 wrote: post #33

ronyfadel wrote: post #21

> While meditating down at the ocean—and tripping on acid courtesy of the motorbike’s new owner—he experienced what would become for him unshakable insights having to do with patience, fate, and love. I was waiting for that part since I started reading the article. Isn’t this what the hippies in the 60’s figured out as well?

It's what everyone figured out, always. Christ was a hippie. People has preached love, casting off money and such since the dawn of time. Usually youth, who then in their 30s decide they'd rather like money.

I’m sure Christ didn’t figure it out on acid though. I was referring to that bit specifically.

Re: A Victoria man has gone two decades without money

#67

Post by david_allison » Sun, Jul 25, 2021, 2:10 PM UTC

knocte wrote: post #45

peterburkimsher wrote: post #11

I admire his resolve, though it's not something I'd like to take to the extreme. Spending more time with people who have less money (e.g. CouchSurfing -> BeWelcome, hitchhiking, dumpster diving) has been an immensely rewarding experience. Last week, I heard a message about investment, which said that the 3 ways to store wealth are stocks in companies, bonds in governments, and property (owned by banks or rich people)…

> A few days later, I read about GitLab making it their policy to help people get visas link?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27899918

Re: A Victoria man has gone two decades without money

#68

Post by redsummer » Sun, Jul 25, 2021, 2:23 PM UTC

kangnkodos wrote: post #17

He wants everyone to suddenly stop using money. If that happened, who would wash the dishes? Many communes have failed over this exact issue. They go on for several years with several people, usually women, making the sacrifice and doing what needs to be done. But eventually, the people who do the dishes get fed up and stop, or leave. And then the whole thing collapses. The alternative is for the leaders to have some…

Hundreds of communes have been started in the US, and the only ones that survive are the religious ones. The people who join political ones often just want to pontificate on the sofa while someone else does the dishes. That’s not sustainable. What makes the religious ones survive? Perhaps they have in their mind a higher being, which gives them the strength to continue.

Re: A Victoria man has gone two decades without money

#69

Post by kderbyma » Sun, Jul 25, 2021, 2:24 PM UTC

CydeWeys wrote: post #56

bellyfullofbac wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny, he'd fit more in a hunter-gatherer society because guess what they also don't have... (to spell it out: money). I mostly agree with what you write, but "You have to contribute productively" is such a capitalist mindset that it draws for me the picture of you being a Gordon Gekko type. I wonder if he'd agree to do some work like cleaning the city parks in exchange for some "gifted" groceries and a room. Obvious…

> Funny, he'd fit more in a hunter-gatherer society because guess what they also don't have... (to spell it out: money). His refusal to use money is really a lampshade on a refusal to do anything useful period. Plenty of people don't interact with money yet still manage to provide useful goods and services in exchange for necessities. He's not doing any of that either. > "You have to contribute productively" is such…

I agree with you. there is nothing to be proud of in his case except that his life doesn't seem to be affected directly by inflation so long as the rest of society keeps its status quo.

I like you recognize that capitalism and money are not the same as productivity and value add....he doesn't seem to do the latter but he benefits still from the former because as you said he is a mooch.

Re: A Victoria man has gone two decades without money

#70

Post by LinuxBender » Sun, Jul 25, 2021, 2:25 PM UTC

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #64

guerrilla wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate arguments like this. People who want clean dishes will do dishes. And no there's no free-rider problem because they don't have to do dishes for anyone else.

> People who want clean dishes will do dishes. And people who want to eat will farm their own food? And people who want medicine will craft their own medications? Self-sufficiency and moneyless societies are pure fantasy, unless they include giving up all modern amenities. I don’t think these people really want to return to the days of hunter gatherer lifestyles or even the days of homesteading. It’s an extreme amoun…

To add to that it isn't even legal to be self sufficient. I know how to make several prescription drugs but the moment I provide them to anyone else or anyone finds out I make them I will be put in a cage.