Amazon Is Creating Company Towns Across the United States • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon Is Creating Company Towns Across the United States

#71

Post by ghaff » Sun, Jul 25, 2021, 1:31 PM UTC

kazen44 wrote: post #60

randomdata wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Historically, company town companies also paid in their own currency that was only spendable in the company stores. Amazon still appears to be paying in standard dollars.

isn't this mainly because paying in anything other then the national currency is illegal in most western nations? For tax purposes, even things like free lunch are considered paymeny aswell.

I am not an accountant but presumably any material issuance of some sort of scrip that could be exchanged for goods would be seen as tax evasion.

Free meals are allowed under certain guidelines, which seem to be written in a way that generally lets companies like Google skate right up to the edge and not go over it (AFAIK). Things like loyalty points and rebates on business expenses are similarly ignored.

Re: Amazon Is Creating Company Towns Across the United States

#72

Post by lrdswrk00 » Sun, Jul 25, 2021, 1:32 PM UTC

fastball wrote: post #34

vortico wrote: post #27

>$15 an hour, Amazon’s starting wage, is below the average for the warehousing industry Where are they getting this information? The average wage in the US is lower, like $13-14. https://www.indeed.com/career/warehouse-worker/salaries https://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Warehouse_Worker/Ho...

Presumably they're being disingenuous and comparing the average salary across the entire industry (including senior positions / management / etc) to Amazon's salary floor, while you are making the appropriate comparison to a warehouse worker . And even then comparing an average to a minimum would still be disingenuous.

Disingenuous based upon math.

Bezos’ wealth is disingenuous built on disingenuous narrative he did it himself and is somehow entitled to as much political scrip he can leverage.

Fiat currency makes belief in a persons wealth not much different than belief in a holy mans connection to God.

Decoupled from their actual output, coupled to their ability to maintain a social meme.

Religion is effectively the same; belief decoupled from observable reality.

We’re all playing a disingenuous semantic game, and it’s hurting all of us.

Re: Amazon Is Creating Company Towns Across the United States

#73

Post by emteycz » Sun, Jul 25, 2021, 1:33 PM UTC

throw474747 wrote: post #69

emteycz wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what? The EU and other similar institutions require their branding to be present in classes too. I'd rather have obviously absurd corporate branding than slow but sure political indoctrination (e.g. the EU makes it look like the local government is incapable of doing anything on its own, while the fact is that everything worked pretty well before the EU and even today 90%+ of funding is local - but the EU flag mus…

Having been in multiple educational institutions in different EU countries I have never seen this anywhere. Did you perhaps confuse this with the common signs indicating that the EU funded that particular project/institution?

I am not confusing anything, that's exactly what I mean. The EU sends a minor (sub 1%, in many cases) contribution but its flag must be displayed on the right side of the local flag facing the children/people - that's exactly the problem. Now the flag is everywhere - public parks, public transit, hospitals, schools, etc - and today's children think there was nothing before the great EU funds rescued us from total poverty - a total lie.

Re: Amazon Is Creating Company Towns Across the United States

#74

Post by swyant » Sun, Jul 25, 2021, 1:35 PM UTC

vortico wrote: post #27

>$15 an hour, Amazon’s starting wage, is below the average for the warehousing industry Where are they getting this information? The average wage in the US is lower, like $13-14. https://www.indeed.com/career/warehouse-worker/salaries https://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Warehouse_Worker/Ho...

I believe it partly comes from this, which is for non-supervisory positions across the board (including truckers): https://www.bls.gov/iag/tgs/iag493.htm#earnings

However, if you look at the table below that, even when you differentiate to more specific occupation, median (and certainly mean) wages are above $15. Perhaps there's a further differentiation to "hand laborers and materials movers" that brings this number down further, per the other BLS link in this thread.

I'd be curious about regional differences though, e.g. in Bessemer https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/18/business/economy/amazon-w...

Re: Amazon Is Creating Company Towns Across the United States

#75

Post by aww_dang » Sun, Jul 25, 2021, 1:42 PM UTC

sudosysgen wrote: post #67

aww_dang wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if we were to accept class theory, in the 21st century nearly everyone has access to a computer, one of the most productive goods. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27903630

This would normally have been true. Sadly we've invented intellectual property to commoditize knowledge, making computers much less productive unless you have intellectual capital (IP, etc...) Beyond that, without structural change, it won't help you to become a programmer unless most people can't become a programmer.

>won't help you to become a programmer unless most people can't become a programmer.

This assumes you're not willing to do what others cannot or will not do. Innovation and developing your own ideas is key. Even in the 19th and 20th centuries industrial goods were only as good as the purposes they were applied to. The difference is that those industrial goods required greater investment and labor.

Today you can use a computer, develop products and services, market them online and collect revenue with only your own labor. It is a cottage industry with worldwide reach.

Re: Amazon Is Creating Company Towns Across the United States

#76

Post by boomboomsubban » Sun, Jul 25, 2021, 1:47 PM UTC

vortico wrote: post #27

>$15 an hour, Amazon’s starting wage, is below the average for the warehousing industry Where are they getting this information? The average wage in the US is lower, like $13-14. https://www.indeed.com/career/warehouse-worker/salaries https://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Warehouse_Worker/Ho...

>Where are they getting this information? The average wage in the US is lower, like $13-14

Could just be a calculation error. If you just saw indeed's average total yearly salary that would show slightly over $15 an hour but wouldn't factor in overtime hours.

Re: Amazon Is Creating Company Towns Across the United States

#77

Post by inglor_cz » Sun, Jul 25, 2021, 1:52 PM UTC

lrdswrk00 wrote: post #72

fastball wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably they're being disingenuous and comparing the average salary across the entire industry (including senior positions / management / etc) to Amazon's salary floor, while you are making the appropriate comparison to a warehouse worker . And even then comparing an average to a minimum would still be disingenuous.

Disingenuous based upon math. Bezos’ wealth is disingenuous built on disingenuous narrative he did it himself and is somehow entitled to as much political scrip he can leverage. Fiat currency makes belief in a persons wealth not much different than belief in a holy mans connection to God. Decoupled from their actual output, coupled to their ability to maintain a social meme. Religion is effectively the same; belief d…

Was it ever different?

The saying "All that glitters is not gold" exists for a reason.

Re: Amazon Is Creating Company Towns Across the United States

#78

Post by lrdswrk00 » Sun, Jul 25, 2021, 1:58 PM UTC

inglor_cz wrote: post #77

lrdswrk00 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disingenuous based upon math. Bezos’ wealth is disingenuous built on disingenuous narrative he did it himself and is somehow entitled to as much political scrip he can leverage. Fiat currency makes belief in a persons wealth not much different than belief in a holy mans connection to God. Decoupled from their actual output, coupled to their ability to maintain a social meme. Religion is effectively the same; belief d…

Was it ever different? The saying "All that glitters is not gold" exists for a reason.

Exactly.

All your warm fuzzies about yourself are not for me to bother with.

I am as beholden to coddling all y’all’s self as you are to making sure people who need it today have cheap insulin.

It’s a semantics free market not a financial one. If my efforts undo your wealth, zero fucks.

See we get to pick and choose who figuratively exists. Doesn’t have to be Bezos or you. Or me. None of us are gold or glitter. As none of us are concepts. Just meat bags.

I’m fine disabusing people of their importance so long as they are inclined to allow it to happen to others.

You’re all on your way out. There is no Valhalla and your work will be forgotten. Why assign value to such unimportant things?

Edit: oh no downvotes; all my influence! Good thing I was around to buy AAPL in the 90s at $6-9/share.

Four letters are more valuable to me than your opinions. I know you all get that.

Re: Amazon Is Creating Company Towns Across the United States

#79

Post by ReptileMan » Sun, Jul 25, 2021, 2:04 PM UTC

kazen44 wrote: post #60

randomdata wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Historically, company town companies also paid in their own currency that was only spendable in the company stores. Amazon still appears to be paying in standard dollars.

isn't this mainly because paying in anything other then the national currency is illegal in most western nations? For tax purposes, even things like free lunch are considered paymeny aswell.

Assume that I give you on top of salary Amazon coupons for 1000$. No tax shenanigans. I (employer ) pay all needed taxes to be clean with IRS.

This way I can guarantee quite a nice chunk of revenue for the whole foods store that is opened there. And I effectively subsidize it.

Re: Amazon Is Creating Company Towns Across the United States

#80

Post by detaro » Sun, Jul 25, 2021, 2:05 PM UTC

emteycz wrote: post #73

throw474747 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having been in multiple educational institutions in different EU countries I have never seen this anywhere. Did you perhaps confuse this with the common signs indicating that the EU funded that particular project/institution?

I am not confusing anything, that's exactly what I mean. The EU sends a minor (sub 1%, in many cases) contribution but its flag must be displayed on the right side of the local flag facing the children/people - that's exactly the problem. Now the flag is everywhere - public parks, public transit, hospitals, schools, etc - and today's children think there was nothing before the great EU funds rescued us from total pov…

EU contributions do not lead to any flagging requirements, flags on public buildings are state decisions. (E.g. here in Germany, even different federal states have differing policies on flying the EU flag - some do it if there is space, others only if there is a specific EU-relevant event going on, similar to UN flags)

The funding programmes generally literally just require you to put a poster up for smaller contributions, for >500k€ you need a "permanent" sign if its a building etc, for projects a mention in info material. If a single "this building was supported through EU fund ABC with XXXXXX €" sign (AFAIK the amount is allowed to be listed but not required, and anyways far from your "present in classes" claim, and far from the level described in the article) leads to people thinking that's all that was impossible otherwise, that sounds like an education problem. And is not that out of the ordinary for funding contributions - here it's not unusual to see that sign grouped with equal large signs of other (state, federal, ...) authorities providing funding.