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A Victoria man has gone two decades without money

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Re: A Victoria man has gone two decades without money

#51

Post by kangnkodos »

CydeWeys wrote: post #28
kypro wrote: post #16

I don't see how taking from everyone and giving very little in return is moral. If everyone did this we'd all live in a far worse world. This is basically the antithesis of my own moral code to give more than I receive. I relate to him in that I value money very little as a medium to facilitate my own happiness, but I still want to make a lot of it so I can give more. He seems sweet though. I think I would get on wit…

Not to put too fine a point on it, but he's a leech on society. He has two children he could not support (and has no contact with), he's constantly mooching off others for his basic needs, and there's not a word in the article about him ever doing a single thing productive for society. And unlike many other homeless people who legitimately are unable to contribute productively, this is all his choice. He's lucky he's…

He is advocating for the homeless in order to help them not freeze in the winter. So he's got that going for him, which is nice.

Re: A Victoria man has gone two decades without money

#52

Post by bellyfullofbac »

CydeWeys wrote: post #28
kypro wrote: post #16

I don't see how taking from everyone and giving very little in return is moral. If everyone did this we'd all live in a far worse world. This is basically the antithesis of my own moral code to give more than I receive. I relate to him in that I value money very little as a medium to facilitate my own happiness, but I still want to make a lot of it so I can give more. He seems sweet though. I think I would get on wit…

Not to put too fine a point on it, but he's a leech on society. He has two children he could not support (and has no contact with), he's constantly mooching off others for his basic needs, and there's not a word in the article about him ever doing a single thing productive for society. And unlike many other homeless people who legitimately are unable to contribute productively, this is all his choice. He's lucky he's…

Funny, he'd fit more in a hunter-gatherer society because guess what they also don't have... (to spell it out: money).

I mostly agree with what you write, but "You have to contribute productively" is such a capitalist mindset that it draws for me the picture of you being a Gordon Gekko type.

I wonder if he'd agree to do some work like cleaning the city parks in exchange for some "gifted" groceries and a room. Obviously the city doesn't want to enter into customized barters with all its employees.

Re: A Victoria man has gone two decades without money

#53

Post by sokoloff »

peterburkimsher wrote: post #11

I admire his resolve, though it's not something I'd like to take to the extreme. Spending more time with people who have less money (e.g. CouchSurfing -> BeWelcome, hitchhiking, dumpster diving) has been an immensely rewarding experience. Last week, I heard a message about investment, which said that the 3 ways to store wealth are stocks in companies, bonds in governments, and property (owned by banks or rich people)…

> [Company] making it their policy to help people get visas (shouldn't that be a government choice?)

Of course it's the government choice to grant the visa or not. It's the company choice as to how much support (financial, HR/legal advice, other) to extend to their employees [and their household].

Re: A Victoria man has gone two decades without money

#54

Post by [deleted] »

kangnkodos wrote: post #17

He wants everyone to suddenly stop using money. If that happened, who would wash the dishes? Many communes have failed over this exact issue. They go on for several years with several people, usually women, making the sacrifice and doing what needs to be done. But eventually, the people who do the dishes get fed up and stop, or leave. And then the whole thing collapses. The alternative is for the leaders to have some…

[deleted]

Re: A Victoria man has gone two decades without money

#55

Post by boomlinde »

kangnkodos wrote: post #17

He wants everyone to suddenly stop using money. If that happened, who would wash the dishes? Many communes have failed over this exact issue. They go on for several years with several people, usually women, making the sacrifice and doing what needs to be done. But eventually, the people who do the dishes get fed up and stop, or leave. And then the whole thing collapses. The alternative is for the leaders to have some…

Haven't you ever done your own dishes? I use something so that it gets dirty, so I'll wash it off.

The jobs "no one wants to do" is usually work people are happy to do for themselves or occasionally their friends and family. The idea that "no one wants to do them" embeds the presumption that you spend eight hours a day doing just that. Of course no one wants to do that!

Re: A Victoria man has gone two decades without money

#56

Post by CydeWeys »

bellyfullofbac wrote: post #52
CydeWeys wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but he's a leech on society. He has two children he could not support (and has no contact with), he's constantly mooching off others for his basic needs, and there's not a word in the article about him ever doing a single thing productive for society. And unlike many other homeless people who legitimately are unable to contribute productively, this is all his choice. He's lucky he's…

Funny, he'd fit more in a hunter-gatherer society because guess what they also don't have... (to spell it out: money). I mostly agree with what you write, but "You have to contribute productively" is such a capitalist mindset that it draws for me the picture of you being a Gordon Gekko type. I wonder if he'd agree to do some work like cleaning the city parks in exchange for some "gifted" groceries and a room. Obvious…

> Funny, he'd fit more in a hunter-gatherer society because guess what they also don't have... (to spell it out: money).

His refusal to use money is really a lampshade on a refusal to do anything useful period. Plenty of people don't interact with money yet still manage to provide useful goods and services in exchange for necessities. He's not doing any of that either.

> "You have to contribute productively" is such a capitalist mindset that it draws for me the picture of you being a Gordon Gekko type.

You've got me pegged all wrong. This transcends affront to capitalism to affront to all forms of societal organization; guy is a mooch, pure and simple, unwilling to do anything to help others but perfectly willing to accept all help from others for his own benefit. No society would put up with him, capitalistic or otherwise. He's a deadbeat father who wouldn't even do anything to support his own kids.

> I wonder if he'd agree to do some work like cleaning the city parks in exchange [...]

Based on what I read in the article it doesn't seem like he's willing to do any work at all. No mentions of performing any work or services in exchange for essentials; it's all freely given to him by charitable people and organizations.

Re: A Victoria man has gone two decades without money

#57

Post by lioeters »

An assortment of quotes from the article..

> ..Refusing to spend money is the only moral way to live.

> ..Not only did money enable what he deemed insane behaviour on a grand scale, the dependence on it, the fear of losing it, the focus on acquiring it wrecked people’s lives and drove them to be dishonest with themselves and others.

> ..People are putting themselves through hell, living in situations that are just making them nuts to avoid being homeless.

> Every taxpayer is an indentured servant until this debt is paid.

> Only one solution appears just and good, and that is a society without money.

Re: A Victoria man has gone two decades without money

#59

Post by kangnkodos »

kylec wrote: post #8
Aaargh20318 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. If you want to live without money, that should be doable, but this isn't it. You can live on a homestead in the middle of nowhere, grow your own crops, raise your own cattle, barter with neighbours and be completely self-sufficient without money. This guy just lets other spend money for him.

Yeah, I'm much more impressed with Scott & Helen Nearing, who did basically that: http://goodlife.org

Is it basically a commune? If so, who washes the dishes? What are the incentives? What is the punishment for skipping dishwasher duty?

Every time I read about communes, I get so excited. I always get inspired by the ideals they are trying to live by.

But then when I hear the details about the day to day logistics and governance, it always ends up sounding like a terrible place to live.

---

I can't tell. It looks more like an organic farm with a few caretakers living on the farm, and financially supported by the community. I like that.

Re: A Victoria man has gone two decades without money

#60

Post by kylec »

kangnkodos wrote: post #59
kylec wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I'm much more impressed with Scott & Helen Nearing, who did basically that: http://goodlife.org

Is it basically a commune? If so, who washes the dishes? What are the incentives? What is the punishment for skipping dishwasher duty? Every time I read about communes, I get so excited. I always get inspired by the ideals they are trying to live by. But then when I hear the details about the day to day logistics and governance, it always ends up sounding like a terrible place to live. --- I can't tell. It looks more…

Not a commune, they were a couple that lived off the land in Maine, and built everything there themselves. Nowadays their home is staffed by volunteers and open to visitors to see how they lived.
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