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PinePhone – Open Source Smart Phone Supported by Major Linux Phone Projects

pine64.org

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Re: PinePhone – Open Source Smart Phone Supported by Major Linux Phone Projects

#51

Post by ppcar »

I carry around a Pinephone with my personal SIM and use it for most personal activities. I also carry about a work phone, which I use for work, and personal activites that I can't yet do on the Pinephone (maps, chromecast, etc.)

It's liberating to have plain old Linux on my phone. My phone is now introspectable, behaves like my other computers, and only runs software that does not track me.

I hack on these and am excited to see how well these continue to mature.

The Pinephone is too underpowered (camera, 2.4GHz, small battery) to be the a viable choice for most interested folks.

The Pinephone is the phone that will jumpstart developers and early adopters to building an ecosystem, and facilitate more powerful phones.

Re: PinePhone – Open Source Smart Phone Supported by Major Linux Phone Projects

#52

Post by Buxato »

gm wrote: post #24
deltaonefour wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>That is not true. As far as I am concerned Linux is clearly superior OS for my laptop over commercial alternatives. I would argue Linux is only superior from the IT software perspective. This is a very narrow perspective that is only inflated if you're in IT or on an IT related site like HN. From almost every other dimension Linux is inferior and therefore from an Overall perspective it is inferior. The most importa…

LOL, so true. I often need to have online meetings with engineers that for some reason prefer Linux as their desktop OS. Guess which meeting participants _always_ delay the meetings because they can't get their audio/video working for routine meetings? If that happens to pretty tech savvy software engineers, the average user has zero chance of using Linux as a desktop effectively.

In my particular case, my fellow workmates in Windows are the ones that have problems with audio. My only problem is with Discord when I share a game screen and my FPS go down to the river.

If the average user means past normal Windows users, maybe yes at first (all changes need relearning a little bit)

But a 0 experience person? It will take maybe less to an user to learn PopOS than Windows.

Re: PinePhone – Open Source Smart Phone Supported by Major Linux Phone Projects

#53

Post by rob74 »

Buxato wrote: post #48
that_guy_iain wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Once they get the software worked out over the next few years though, it'll be the best thing out there. No ads, no bullshit, just a phone with a mainline linux distribution. I'm coming to the realisation that open source projects will always provide a lower quality than comerical ones. How can we honestly expect a small team of developers to compete with the larger teams a commerical project can afford? The realit…

"open source projects will always provide a lower quality than comerical ones" not true, Kicad, Blender, Krita, Ardour ... But in this case hardware is on the mix, and it will take years to deliver an ecosystem competitive, also would be nicer to have middle class hardware and no ultra low cost. We will see if openhardware movement reach a decent quality. But I am agree with you that it will be almost impossible to r…

In the case of "Linux on a phone" I think it makes more sense to take advantage of all the work Google has put into Android and just throw out the tracking and Google apps, like various projects are doing.

Re: PinePhone – Open Source Smart Phone Supported by Major Linux Phone Projects

#54

Post by thih9 »

The store page mentions dead pixels; It's the first time I'm seeing a disclaimer like this on a smartphone. Is this normal? Why aren't other manufacturers mentioning this?

Source: https://pine64.com/product/pinephone-beta-edition-with-conve...

> A small numbers of stuck or dead pixels (1-3) can be a characteristic of LCD screens. While rare, this should not be considered a defect. If you think that a minor dissatisfaction, such as a dead pixel will prompt you to file a PayPal dispute, DO NOT purchase the PinePhone.

Re: PinePhone – Open Source Smart Phone Supported by Major Linux Phone Projects

#55

Post by guiriduro »

prox wrote: post #44
that_guy_iain wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Once they get the software worked out over the next few years though, it'll be the best thing out there. No ads, no bullshit, just a phone with a mainline linux distribution. I'm coming to the realisation that open source projects will always provide a lower quality than comerical ones. How can we honestly expect a small team of developers to compete with the larger teams a commerical project can afford? The realit…

Reading the comments, and weighing your comment, you say we need to have Android to be successful. Before that you say “we need apps”, that’s the heart of your comment. It can be successfully argued that we don’t need more of what we already have (aka closed walled, ad ridden, privacy off by default - solutions) We (as in developers) should start believing in these projects and adopt them. Blender for a long time cou…

If they focussed on the bare essentials, and where the work could make the most difference - as in value add - this could be a breakthrough device. By which I mean - in a world with Pegasus, and the (deserved) lack of trust in the CIA, Chinese, Russian and Israeli intelligence services, what is needed is simply secure voice and secure messaging, and a minimalistic secured kernel, and maybe integration with Vault or BitWarden at a push. Any apps would be in some individual sandboxed, isolated web environment, but very secondary.

Re: PinePhone – Open Source Smart Phone Supported by Major Linux Phone Projects

#56

Post by rubatuga »

prox wrote: post #44
that_guy_iain wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Once they get the software worked out over the next few years though, it'll be the best thing out there. No ads, no bullshit, just a phone with a mainline linux distribution. I'm coming to the realisation that open source projects will always provide a lower quality than comerical ones. How can we honestly expect a small team of developers to compete with the larger teams a commerical project can afford? The realit…

Reading the comments, and weighing your comment, you say we need to have Android to be successful. Before that you say “we need apps”, that’s the heart of your comment. It can be successfully argued that we don’t need more of what we already have (aka closed walled, ad ridden, privacy off by default - solutions) We (as in developers) should start believing in these projects and adopt them. Blender for a long time cou…

Blender also had a massive investment that PinePhone does not have.

Re: PinePhone – Open Source Smart Phone Supported by Major Linux Phone Projects

#57

Post by superasn »

deltaonefour wrote: post #20
matkoniecz wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm coming to the realisation that open source projects will always provide a lower quality than comerical ones. That is not true. As far as I am concerned Linux is clearly superior OS for my laptop over commercial alternatives. > How can we honestly expect a small team of developers to compete with the larger teams a commerical project can afford? In many cases they win by default. If "no leaking of personal data"…

>That is not true. As far as I am concerned Linux is clearly superior OS for my laptop over commercial alternatives. I would argue Linux is only superior from the IT software perspective. This is a very narrow perspective that is only inflated if you're in IT or on an IT related site like HN. From almost every other dimension Linux is inferior and therefore from an Overall perspective it is inferior. The most importa…

I used to feel the exact same way until 2 years ago. But my experience has been absolutely brilliant with Linux mint in the last 2 years. No driver issues, super nice UI and everything just works now!

As a matter of fact the only use I have for Windows now is for playing games (also Photoshop).

Otoh the amount of clutter and issues I have to deal in Win10 is just bad. I digress but thankfully there is a tool called "Shutup 10" that makes Windows much less annoying.

Re: PinePhone – Open Source Smart Phone Supported by Major Linux Phone Projects

#58

Post by _ph_ »

that_guy_iain wrote: post #12
katmannthree wrote: post #3

The pinephone is great, in fact I'm typing this comment from mine. That said, fair warning to anyone thinking about getting one: it's slow, buggy, and flat out unreliable if you need to be able to receive / answer calls and texts for anything important (e.g. work). Once they get the software worked out over the next few years though, it'll be the best thing out there. No ads, no bullshit, just a phone with a mainline…

> Once they get the software worked out over the next few years though, it'll be the best thing out there. No ads, no bullshit, just a phone with a mainline linux distribution. I'm coming to the realisation that open source projects will always provide a lower quality than comerical ones. How can we honestly expect a small team of developers to compete with the larger teams a commerical project can afford? The realit…

There are fundamental differences between typical commercial and open source software. The big advantage of commercial software is, that it is developed by larger teams with clear goals and deadlines set, to ship a product. The development team usually is larger and it is not only programmers but professionals of any profession can be involved in the development as needed, most importantly of course, graphical designers and artists. For a lot software, the ability to access other commercial products or confidential information is needed to achieve all goals. Just think about the collaboration of Adobe with the different camera companies to ensure that all kind of files from the cameras are supported perfectly - here also color-correct hardware for the developers is needed, not necessarily available in open source projects.

In that respect, commercial software is difficult to beat, if ever. But then, open source plays a differnt game. It is less driven by deadlines to ship, commercial requirements or restrictions, not driven by marketing, for good or bad. The user interaction might not be as polished, but things an open source software does well, it usually does really well. It is difficult to bet often decades of development.

Re: PinePhone – Open Source Smart Phone Supported by Major Linux Phone Projects

#59

Post by 1vuio0pswjnm7 »

dsr_ wrote: post #13
1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"... jut a phone and a mainline linux distribution." From the OP: "... the PinePhone runs mainline Linux as well as anything else you'll get it to run." Linux is great but being able to run several different OS is, IMO, on a whole `nother level. For example, I am interested in running NetBSD. About 12 years ago, there was a phone called the T-Mobile Sidekick. What OS did it run. That phone was allegedly the first to…

The Danger Hiptop was branded as the T-Mobile Sidekick; later T-Mo used the Sidekick name for some other devices. DangerOS required all applications to be written in Java and distributed via their store; if you stopped paying your subscription fee you would lose access to the store and to the online backup service as well. Microsoft bought Danger and eventually closed it, killing all usage. For a while it was the bes…

"DangerOS required all applications to be written in Java..."

Was Java a requirement of the OS or was it just a design choice by the developers. The OS was NetBSD AFAIK; of course one can run a JVM on NetBSD but that's not a requirement; I never do. Is Pinephone limited only to running Java applications. I want more programming options than just Java.

Re: PinePhone – Open Source Smart Phone Supported by Major Linux Phone Projects

#60

Post by linmob »

numpad0 wrote: post #49
gm wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm with you, but this is the wrong place to come and say that. That attacks the ego of many people on here. EDIT: But read the other comments on here and they actually prove you right: First hand reports of low build quality by the same manufacturer (downvoted, of course), someone saying "someone should just add X feature and I'd buy it" (as opposed to true-to-open-source "I'll add X feature, which will make it it a…

I think the “open source vs commercial” framing can be adjusted slightly: Proprietary UI products are great and FOSS CLI software are great too. The difference is that businesses require scaling, parallelism, distributed stake holding always, and that many parts of non-code product developments scale, while code authoring don’t/must not be. That causes open source UI to be just under-resourced development compared to…

“Under-resourced” is a good way to put it. There’s often a lack of UX design and thus a lack of polish – since there’s often no money to be made, there’s little to no incentive to bring it up from “works for me” to “works for everybody seamlessly“.

(I’ll spare us all the Pareto 80%/20% theory here, although I am pretty sure that it applies here.)

The upside is that open source or free software features fewer (and often no) antipatterns modern proprietary software suffers from.

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