Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed • Hacker News Board

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#201

Post by bart_spoon » Sat, Jul 24, 2021, 9:52 PM UTC

tailspin2019 wrote: post #163

causality0 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

all their friends use it and it'd be social ostracism to not use it? Is that a thing? I have plenty of friends that use Instagram but they don't look at each other's stuff or talk about what someone they know in real life posted. If they care about people they know seeing it they put it on Facebook or in the group chat.

Are you asking if social ostracism amongst teenagers is a thing?

They are clearly asking if social ostracism due to not using a social media platform is a thing.

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#202

Post by iamstupidsimple » Sat, Jul 24, 2021, 9:53 PM UTC

austincheney wrote: post #137

ben_w wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Network effects: your kids don’t get to hang out IRL if everyone else’s parents let their kids meet all their social needs from social media. Don’t get me wrong, I think the world would be a much better place if the big players in social media ceased to exist, but no single person can act as an island, and you need to understand the problem well enough to give your kids alternatives rather than just put your foot dow…

How is it an island if they socialize in the real world? They text their friends from the real world and share memes with each other all day. They don’t need a social media account to do any of that.

Here on this website, we spend an awful lot of time discussing how one person remote working on a team who are in-person can easily lead to being forgotten. This is similar. When somebody is putting an event together and goes through their contact list on FB, you not being there puts you at a small disadvantage. If you're socially awkward in-person, it can really set you back.

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#203

Post by zimpenfish » Sat, Jul 24, 2021, 9:58 PM UTC

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #158

retrac wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Our collective age is showing, perhaps. One can buy a new phone or tablet, with a month's data plan, with a few days' lunch money now, in some places. This translates into there being no practical way to keep a dedicated teenager off the Internet, unless they're literally never allowed out of the house and monitored 24/7. (And that might well be child abuse without very good cause! And you've probably already lo…

Where can you buy a phone/tablet that’s capable of browsing the internet, and a data plan with enough data to be worthwhile, for a few days of lunch money? Actually, would retail stores even sell a data plan to an unaccompanied minor? You could buy a SIM online I suppose, possibly via a gift card, and watch the mail carefully to ensure the package isn't seen, but it all seems like a lot of work for a small amount of…

> Where can you buy a phone/tablet that’s capable of browsing the internet

CEX (UK secondhand games/electronics) will sell you a HTC Salsa* for £3 ($4.12) and Argos (generic catalogue warehouse) will sell you a SIM for £1 ($1.37) that you can then top up with £10 ($13.75) at ATMs, etc., for 7GB of data.

Total cost: £14 ($19.24) which is probably under a week's worth of lunch money these days.

* Should still work on 3G HSDPA 2100MHz.

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#204

Post by damnedspot » Sat, Jul 24, 2021, 9:58 PM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #25

brohee wrote: post #19

Do they have split stats for girls attending all girls school? Bullying is often the root cause of teenage suicide, and I wonder wether a mixed environment makes it better or worse...

All-girls schools are pretty rare in the US aren’t they?

They're uncommon outside of pricey prep schools. Interesting question, but the data would be tough to speculate with since there would be such an income difference between those girls and the statistically average American girl.

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#205

Post by _Understated_ » Sat, Jul 24, 2021, 10:07 PM UTC

mprovost wrote: post #20

retrac wrote: post #16

There was something very off before the pandemic. Girls were already diverging sharply from the historical norm and from boys over the last few years: https://els-jbs-prod-cdn.jbs.elsevierhealth.com/cms/attachme... "Sex- and Age-specific Increases in Suicide Attempts by Self-Poisoning in the United States among Youth and Young Adults from 2000 to 2018". It's disproportionately a specific method (poisoning) and it is…

Instagram was founded in 2010.

> Instagram was founded in 2010.

You may not be far from the truth: last year I watched a talk given by Jonathan Haidt (sp?) and he specifically showed the suicide numbers increasing when the "Like" button appeared... the increase was not an anomaly, it was obvious.

I can't find the video unfortunately :(

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#206

Post by mixmastamyk » Sat, Jul 24, 2021, 10:08 PM UTC

imhoguy wrote: post #192

mixmastamyk wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of folks addicted to social media think it's important that kids get addicted too, like smoking in the old days. Truth is they'd be better off without it, for as long as possible. Focusing on media instead of school is a great way to end up working at a gas station later in life.

What is wrong with working at gas station? Here at my times kids were told they would be shoveling dirt if they had neglected school. It may be anegdotal but I know many of such school low performers who today own excavators, dumper trucks fleet, construction businesses. The point is they do much better than some of their now blue collar school peers burned out after years of studying and "career" often pushed to imp…

Nothing wrong, but you’ll probably be happier achieving a little more.

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#207

Post by ayngg » Sat, Jul 24, 2021, 10:09 PM UTC

slowmovintarget wrote: post #144

ayngg wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the difference is that the MTV sexuality scare was predicated on the belief that sexualized videos would normalize sexualization in youth with negative consequences, whereas in social media applications create the incentive structures for that behavior to thrive. I assume the fear was girls would sexualize themselves because of what they saw was popular on MTV, which they believed would make them popular as w…

The problem now is the feedback and amplification provided by the social media platforms. It is an actual slippery slope as opposed to a fallacious one. People are pushed to go further and further to gratify the urges of others for validation proxies in the form of internet points. (Followers, likes, and eventually money.) There's a reason that the execs at most of those social media companies don't let their kids us…

Yeah, like a lot of large industries, big tech exploits the value of data and the erosion of privacy for profit while outsourcing the social costs for someone else to solve. Almost by design they have created something too big to control.

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#208

Post by pepperonipizza » Sat, Jul 24, 2021, 10:13 PM UTC

_Understated_ wrote: post #205

mprovost wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Instagram was founded in 2010.

> Instagram was founded in 2010. You may not be far from the truth: last year I watched a talk given by Jonathan Haidt (sp?) and he specifically showed the suicide numbers increasing when the "Like" button appeared... the increase was not an anomaly, it was obvious. I can't find the video unfortunately :(

https://youtu.be/CI6rX96oYnY

He talked about it here on the Joe Rogan Podcast

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#209

Post by parineum » Sat, Jul 24, 2021, 10:14 PM UTC

Dumblydorr wrote: post #44

This data isn't that convincing, a lot of factors go into this messy correlation between ED visits for girl suicide attempts and covid closure of schools. The title of the link doesn't mention ED visits for attempts, which is the actual outcome of interest here, so IMO the link title is too strongly worded from an epidemiologists viewpoint. Now conjecturing as to correlation confounders. Maybe the girls need more tim…

The confounding factor that I find most interesting is the fact that parents were likely also home much more during this time.

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#210

Post by xook » Sat, Jul 24, 2021, 10:17 PM UTC

_Understated_ wrote: post #205

mprovost wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Instagram was founded in 2010.

> Instagram was founded in 2010. You may not be far from the truth: last year I watched a talk given by Jonathan Haidt (sp?) and he specifically showed the suicide numbers increasing when the "Like" button appeared... the increase was not an anomaly, it was obvious. I can't find the video unfortunately :(

While this may not be the exact video, would this[0] be a worthy substitute? I'm not in a position to view it in its entirety at this moment, but I would be interested later when there is time.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhwTZi3Ld3Y