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Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

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Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#171

Post by techlaw »

Could not access the article but it appears to reference this CDC MMWR from June 18, 2021: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/pdfs/mm7024e1-H.pdf

[I've included the link to the CDC report above and the summary below because this information is important and should be accessible (i.e. should not require allowing fbcdn.net trackers). I also prefer the source to somebody's interpretation. If the original article provides additional insight I'd like to see a non-FB link to it, my admittedly quick scan of the comments did not spot one.]

From the SUMMARY of that report:

What is already known about this topic? During 2020, the proportion of mental health–related emergency department (ED) visits among adolescents aged 12–17 years increased 31% compared with that during 2019.

What is added by this report? In May 2020, during the COVID-19 pandemic, ED visits for suspected suicide attempts began to increase among adolescents aged 12–17 years, especially girls. During February 21–March 20, 2021, suspected suicide attempt ED visits were 50.6% higher among girls aged 12–17 years than during the same period in 2019; among boys aged 12–17 years, suspected suicide attempt ED visits increased 3.7%.

What are the implications for public health practice? Suicide prevention requires a comprehensive approach that is adapted during times of infrastructure disruption, involves multisectoral partnerships and implements evidence-based strategies to address the range of factors influencing suicide risk.

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#172

Post by MisterBastahrd »

lupire wrote: post #130
MisterBastahrd wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because you're not a parent, here's a tip: kids are tougher than you give them credit for and they're tougher than they understand. Your responsibility as a parent is to figure out how to toughen them up without crushing their self-esteem. Instagram is not an essential part of any of this. If the worst thing your kid can say about you when they hit adulthood is "daddy didn't let me on Instagram," then you did a pheno…

You're missing the point. It's not "Dad didn't let me on Instagram". It's "Dad didn't let me have shared experiences to build relationships with my peers."

If a shared experience is toxic to the mental well-being of my kids, then they're not going to share in the experience. I'd rather my kid hate me for a couple years as a teenager for not letting them engage in harmful things than never getting out of their teenage years.

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#173

Post by Zababa »

cletus wrote: post #115
Zababa wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is all stuff that boys of this age don't care about. But the girls are vicious. That's not totally true. Sure the buys may not care about new clothes or slumber parties (though I doubt it), but they will care for other reasons. Bullying doesn't have a gender.

Bullying may not have a gender but in the aggregate it's different between boys and girls. Note the word "aggregate". There are invariably anecdotes the contradict the aggregate view but the point is that it's not an absolute, just an aggregate. There's lots of research on this topic. You see the ripples of this well into adulthood. You see it as the expectations placed on girls and women where they're held to a high…

My point was more about the victims but I guess I wasn't clear enough about that. The thing is, boys and girls bully in different ways. Most people go to mixed schools, so there's not a clear separation between boys and girls.

> You see the ripples of this well into adulthood. You see it as the expectations placed on girls and women where they're held to a higher standard than boys and men are. And who are the agents of that? Other girls and women.

The part about girls and women being held to higher standards than boys and men is news to me. Is this your impression, or is this backed up by data/studies/something?

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#174

Post by turtlebits »

MrFoof wrote: post #70
Dumblydorr wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would you handle it if they begged, pleaded, and explained how all their friends use it and it'd be social ostracism to not use it? I'm not a parent yet but I dread this situation. I'm good at denying urges personally, so I'd tell them desire is a constant part of life, we can't always get what we crave. Further, I'd state actual facts about girls mental health, they will see and be exposed to unhealthy mindsets…

From what I hear from everyone I know with kids... >How would you handle it if they bought their own 2nd cellphone, and only used the cellular network to escape your control. That's what really happens. Lock your kid down? They'll get right around it by going outside of the infrastructure and devices you supply. They'll just carry two phones around, and you just won't be wiser about the second one unless you catch th…

Kids need to learn self control, reason and consequences before giving/using a cell phone. (as well as most other screen based activities).

Parents are relying too much on screens as a form of parenting/entertainment without teaching these critical skills.

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#175

Post by turtlebits »

Dumblydorr wrote: post #33
ianai wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That definitely looks like an impactful year from the graphs there. I think if I had kids I wouldn’t let them on such sites until 16/17 or never. Granted, I have a strong opinion against social media before this data.

How would you handle it if they begged, pleaded, and explained how all their friends use it and it'd be social ostracism to not use it? I'm not a parent yet but I dread this situation. I'm good at denying urges personally, so I'd tell them desire is a constant part of life, we can't always get what we crave. Further, I'd state actual facts about girls mental health, they will see and be exposed to unhealthy mindsets…

What happened to the days where you earned the privilege to have/do things? That there are consequence with breaking the rules? Show them how to use it responsibly, the downsides that can come out of it.

Start with limits and let them earn the right to have more access. When you kid starts riding a bike you don't let them ride everywhere, you let them stay on the block, and if they understand safety and are being safe, you slowly expand the range they can go.

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#176

Post by rob_c »

loeg wrote: post #100
rob_c wrote: post #95

Did they attempt to take the analysis back in time to use the larger dataset of schools being closed. I.e. Has teen suicide in America always been higher when schools were open always, or is this somehow unique to the extra closures?

> That’s not unexpected. Suicide death rates (for which we have decades of reliable data) among teens and young adults predictably fall during summer months, and also in December—that is, times when schools are the least in session. So, what our graphs above show, an apparent inverse correlation between school closings and suicidal behavior, is not unique to the Covid-19 pandemic.

Thanks!

Ah hadn't noticed that and was struggling to paste the info graphic. Would love to see the decorrolation displayed graphically but that's just the way I read data

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#177

Post by sp332 »

krisoft wrote: post #161
tzs wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

South Park, season 3 episode 11, "Chinpokomon", covered how this really works: Kyle: [enters] Mom, Dad, can I have money to buy Chinpokomon? Sheila: What's a Chinpokomon? Kyle: I'm not sure. Sheila: Well, why do you need one? Kyle: I don't know. Sheila: ...Well then, the answer is no, Kyle. You just got money to buy your Cyborg Bill doll. Kyle: Yeah, but Cyborg Bill is totally gay now. Please Mom? Everybody else has…

When I was young I really, really wanted a tamagotchi. My parents wouldn't buy one for me with the same reasoning as in that South Park episode. So I wrote one for myself in Quick Basic. Several years later I become a professional software developer. :D I guess thanks mum thanks dad. :) (Because I never really played with a real tamagotchi I had to figure out for myself what a tamagotchi should do. So mine was a pig.…

You might be interested in "Many Tamogatchis were harmed in the making of this presentation" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=c4PkcZScBV8

And more the next year https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbTgDfB0cao

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#178

Post by watwut »

throwawayboise wrote: post #123
cletus wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bullying may not have a gender but in the aggregate it's different between boys and girls. Note the word "aggregate". There are invariably anecdotes the contradict the aggregate view but the point is that it's not an absolute, just an aggregate. There's lots of research on this topic. You see the ripples of this well into adulthood. You see it as the expectations placed on girls and women where they're held to a high…

> at least until male bullying graduates into violence My experience is that it mostly starts there. Most of male "bullying" is establishing physical dominance. It's almost all intimidation, physical threats, pushing/shoving, fighting. The psychological, gossipy, demeaning sort of bullying is more from the females.

> Most of male "bullying" is establishing physical dominance. It's almost all intimidation, physical threats, pushing/shoving, fighting. The psychological, gossipy, demeaning sort of bullying is more from the females.

Not true. Guys are very effective at spreading lies about people and in using condescension and insults. Men and boys are very effective in demeaning other people.

They absolutely not limit to physical violence - especially at teenage age. In fact, their most common way to get at others are words. The physical violence happens on top of it.

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#179

Post by patrickdavey »

ianai wrote: post #131
voisin wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Best not to try to control them before that age either. Best to try to develop a relationship where you can express your concerns in a straightforward manner and hear their concerns and get their buy-in on some solution that safeguards them from your concerns but let’s them have some semblance of what they want.

Agree. Those tend to be the most functional relationships/young adults that I remember interacting with in the past. Social media though is clearly a thing to approach carefully. I personally just block it all at the firewall and watch for the day society gets through this phase.

Terribly basic question, but, can they not just use a VPN to tunnel through? I've heard kids are doing that kind of thing now.

Re: Schools opened, suicide attempts in girls skyrocketed

#180

Post by wonnage »

voisin wrote: post #53
mprovost wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Instagram was founded in 2010.

I am not disagreeing but I am interested to know which specific factors make it so different from things in the past. I remember growing up and the boogeyman was sexualized videos on MTV and violent video games. I didn’t believe it then and I don’t quite believe it now. Not to say I don’t believe social media has negative impacts but this is a pretty sharp rise. It also coincided with the post-2009 financial crisis.…

The self-esteem movement many of us millennials grew up with feels like it has largely the same motivations as all the corporate-sponsored mindfulness initiatives that are in vogue now. It's a way to shift responsibility for dealing with a shitty environment to individuals, instead of fixing the environment. If you have low self-esteem it becomes your problem to fix, maybe you should try these SSRIs, surely it can't be the fact that everything costs 5x what it used to and wages have stayed flat.

The new buzzword in private school now is "resilience", which I feel like is tacit acknowledgement that kids need to deal with things sucking in the future.

Self esteem (1990 - 2000s) = denial: "I don't feel bad!" Resilience (2010 -) = anger: "I feel bad, but I'll fight and come back stronger!"

Maybe the future pattern will be as follows:

"Solution-driven" = bargaining: "I feel bad and here's what you can do so I feel better" "Pragmatic" = depression: "I feel bad and I should feel bad" "Peaceful warrior" = acceptance: "I feel bad and that's normal when the world is a post-apocalyptic nightmare in 2060"

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