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Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

theatlantic.com

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Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#471

Post by crackercrews »

mannerheim wrote: post #454
nonameiguess wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This article is specifically about the UC system, which has been banned by Proposition 209 since 1996 from considering an applicant's race when making admissions decisions. It might matter at private schools or in other states, though. It might surprise people who only know California by reputation and assume it is completely full of raging lefties, but affirmative action measures have been pretty soundly rejected by…

California has a significant Asian population. In my experience, many older Chinese Americans are completely apolitical, but one thing they do care about is that their children get into a good college. They exerted significant pressure the last time repealing Prop 209 was proposed by calling and writing their elected officials.

The last time 209 was up for repeal was last year. Elected officials were not involved. It was up for popular vote, and it failed. I think the margin was even wider than when 209 was first put in place.

The pro-209 campaign was outspent something like $27M to $1.6M but still prevailed.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#472

Post by adnmcq999 »

livinginfear wrote: post #469

This is one of the most outrageous things I've seen in a while. I really think the academic institutions are hammering the last nails into America's coffin. America is a failed state, the majority of Americans just don't know it yet. The founding mythos, and ideological bedrock of America has been replaced by something toxic and subversive. The ideological upheaval of the last few years has left behind a broken and c…

I want to believe you’re wrong and I really don’t think there is a way to say for sure (too many variables) - but there are a lot of red flags.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#473

Post by tdhz77 »

imwillofficial wrote: post #448
tdhz77 wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The color blind thinking modal has a long history of helping the majority stay the majority. What you propose is to continuing allow the status quo, which has already by statistical aggregation of college entrance proved to allow under performing “whites” in. Have you not seen the news where Aunt Becky got her kid in? Without tough affirmative action rules, Aunt becky’s kids get in and your kids don’t. This thinking…

> The color blind thinking modal has a long history of helping the majority stay the majority. Come on guys, to be less racist we must be MORE racist!

Or the alternative or your reality.. ignore Jim Crow existed?

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#474

Post by mannerheim »

crackercrews wrote: post #471
mannerheim wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

California has a significant Asian population. In my experience, many older Chinese Americans are completely apolitical, but one thing they do care about is that their children get into a good college. They exerted significant pressure the last time repealing Prop 209 was proposed by calling and writing their elected officials.

The last time 209 was up for repeal was last year. Elected officials were not involved. It was up for popular vote, and it failed. I think the margin was even wider than when 209 was first put in place. The pro-209 campaign was outspent something like $27M to $1.6M but still prevailed.

Ah, my mistake, I was thinking of the attempt in 2012.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#475

Post by jimbob45 »

honkycat wrote: post #231
gotoeleven wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a bizarre canard that people keep running with. You can prep for the SAT but it adds 20-30 points at most. So mostly you can't prep for it. You certainly can't buy a high score. College sports is a racket though for sure.

So personalized tutoring does nothing to improve your score? What an absurd suggestion. That USED to be line line but it has since changed: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2017/05/...

It helps but you’re not gonna add 1000 points to your score if you didn’t pay attention in high school unless you’re basically attending a high school’s worth of test prep.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#476

Post by jimbob45 »

spicymaki wrote: post #161
323454 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This already exists and it doesn't quite work. School funding and outcomes are less well correlated than you might expect. Some of the worst performing schools and districts are also the best funded. The top causal factor appears to be parental involvement: highly involved parents in even poorly funded schools is better than uninvolved parents in well funded schools.

That makes sense. Ultimately when you have distress at home caused by poverty, violence, neglect, etc. the student will be at a disadvantage no matter how good the school is. Distressed parents will lead to distressed children and then distressed schools which creates a cycle. This is ultimately a hard problem to solve because so many issues need to be fixed simultaneously. College is way too late to address this.

I was going to say exactly this. I’ll add that free state-sponsored daycare would probably do more for minorities than anything college-related ever could.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#477

Post by Spivak »

livinginfear wrote: post #469

This is one of the most outrageous things I've seen in a while. I really think the academic institutions are hammering the last nails into America's coffin. America is a failed state, the majority of Americans just don't know it yet. The founding mythos, and ideological bedrock of America has been replaced by something toxic and subversive. The ideological upheaval of the last few years has left behind a broken and c…

A single university is dropping standardized testing as one of the metrics they use to determine what applicants get into their collages and that's the death of the US as a state?

The history of the US is a history of European oppression. The delinquents you're talking about are the ones who actually want to tell the history as it actually was and not memorialize people who actively mistreated (which is generous phrasing) the descendants of the Americans who live here. In some way I'm sympathetic that we're all collectively "meeting our heroes" and it's not great but it's the truth.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#478

Post by smoldesu »

rayiner wrote: post #383

What I find very odd about this is the assumption that kids in challenging circumstances would have more problem with test prep than with keeping up their GPA. Poor people can afford test prep. Stuyvesant, NYC’s selective admission high school, has 50% of students living in poverty, and a 1300+ average SAT score. A couple of thousand dollars one time is something most Americans can scrape together. Gaming GPA is much…

Growing up, I was the oldest of several kids, and my parents had a mostly hands-off approach to letting me grow up. It was mostly great, but my GPA was in the bottom 10% of the school's performers (which the staff would remind my family of quite frequently). Unless your parents are motivated to go the extra mile, proofread everything you write, parse math with their kids and help them read Shakespeare, getting a 4.0 becomes pure mythology. I graduated with a GPA in the low 2s, and a cumulative SAT score in the 1300s. You can draw your own conclusions, but it's moreover an example of how dumb it is to try to position kids on a gradient of success.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#479

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

wpasc wrote: post #445
limeblack wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forgive me but what is wrong with the AP classes/exams. And yes you can take them with out taking the class(I did.)

This is not my opinion, but critiques against AP classes point to the correlation between the resources a high school has and the amount of AP classes and resultant tests available. More focus on AP classes would likely exacerbate economic inequality in admissions (so the [not my] argument says).

AP classes aren't an inherent problem if they're providing longer duration intensive study for more advanced students. There is, however, no reason for an external testing industry to validate a student's knowledge in fine grained subject areas. I went through high school before private testing had metasticized into its current form. AP classes had the benefit of a +1 bump in GPA. Nobody was left standing at the gate because of lack of resources.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#480

Post by ApolloFortyNine »

If you decide to argue that good test scores favor the rich because they can afford test prep, why are grades allowed at all? In reality the bar to afford 10 one hour sat prep classes is much cheaper than 4 years of tutors in different subjects.

And, since I have no doubt that'll likely occur eventually, what would we use to decide who gets into colleges? Is it going to be a competition on who tells the best story in their essay? Can you even be held accountable for lying in the essay, could you even prove it? What else is there?

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