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A 3°C world has no safe place

economist.com

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Re: A 3°C world has no safe place

#81

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

endisneigh wrote: post #32

I fear the one-two punch of disproportionate use of energy coupled with rampant world-wide inequality (in both resources and income) result in those who caused the issues having little reason to care about the result. In a democratic country, how will a leader convince the population to care about this if the country is rich and currently is unaffected? Well, we're about to see how successful or unsuccessful they mig…

> In a democratic country, how will a leader convince the population to care about this if the country is rich and currently is unaffected

Depends on the definition of "unaffected". I'm not sure that the Pacific Northwest, nor the Southwest nor the West would necessarily accept the "unaffected" label. Can they afford to smooth over the impact by using more energy & money? To some extent, certainly, but not entirely.

Re: A 3°C world has no safe place

#82

Post by SV_BubbleTime »

scoofy wrote: post #65
noasaservice wrote: post #27

I'm sitting in my air conditioned room, in the USA. Doing computer stuff, naturally. I look at what I can do about this. I can turn up the temp in my room, and the house. Meager difference. I can use less water - I already am, with getting showers every other day on average. I can eat less meat - which I do with purchase of the beef CSA. I'm big into the repair movement, and repair household equipment and electronics…

The American development pattern is the problem that we can actually solve. If you genuinely care, and this isn't pandering, read the book Strong Towns. Our cities are designed as inefficiently as possible, on purpose, and things like zoning and automobile infrastructure literally ban climate conscious living spaces. We should also at least have a carbon tax for things like normalizing beef as an alternative rather t…

Other than world war, what mechanisms do you propose to get China, India, and the entire 3rd world on to an effective carbon tax plan?

I mean, if the answer is world war, I’ll at least give you credit for an honest answer. I just rarely see that come up. The truth is yes we can and should do better, but also realize that other nations will take any advantage they can, including ignoring climate concerns.

So if it’s a global problem, it needs a global solution, so what is that mechanism to apply one?

Re: A 3°C world has no safe place

#83

Post by MyKneeGrows »

noasaservice wrote: post #27

I'm sitting in my air conditioned room, in the USA. Doing computer stuff, naturally. I look at what I can do about this. I can turn up the temp in my room, and the house. Meager difference. I can use less water - I already am, with getting showers every other day on average. I can eat less meat - which I do with purchase of the beef CSA. I'm big into the repair movement, and repair household equipment and electronics…

Fun fact: the US military is the largest polluter in the world and has held the record for decades. 750,000 tons of toxic waste every year in the form of depleted uranium, oil, jet fuels, pesticides, defoliants, lead and other chemicals.

And hey we got the PRC military adding the equivalent of the German Navy, every year, in ships to their roster. No they don't run on solar panels in case you were wondering.

So take your three showers a day. Keep your car idling at stop lights. Burn your garbage. I'm not trolling. Your 'foot print' is a drop in the ocean compared to the real behemoths out there.

And I haven't even started on the companies that PRODUCE equipment for these large forces.

Re: A 3°C world has no safe place

#84

Post by titzer »

ardit33 wrote: post #3

Canada and northern part of the US will be fine (north of the mason dixon line). Places like Albany, NY, or Minesota, or most of Canada, appart from the occasional crazy swings, are going to be more lovely places to live, with slightly milder winters. The southern part is toast, both from water level rises, and lack of fresh water. In this country, the ones that are going to be the most affected by global warming, se…

> Canada and northern part of the US will be fine (north of the mason dixon line).

I highly doubt that, given the heat we saw in the PNW and Canada this past month, but even if true, the 3C is average over the planet. So other places in the world will have to be even more than 3C for that to be the average. They aren't gonna like that one bit.

Re: A 3°C world has no safe place

#85

Post by jdavis703 »

abeppu wrote: post #69
noasaservice wrote: post #27

I'm sitting in my air conditioned room, in the USA. Doing computer stuff, naturally. I look at what I can do about this. I can turn up the temp in my room, and the house. Meager difference. I can use less water - I already am, with getting showers every other day on average. I can eat less meat - which I do with purchase of the beef CSA. I'm big into the repair movement, and repair household equipment and electronics…

Up until now, I think it's been too hard to direct your money away from the companies emitting loads of carbon. But I wonder, now that Europe is talking about a border tax for imported carbon, and the US has introduced legislation for a border tax, could that change, even before other places institute the same? To be eligible for import to Europe, would producers elsewhere need to tally and report the carbon associat…

Most of the companies on the various “top polluters” lists are energy companies. We can direct our money away from them by walking, biking, transiting or buying an EV.

Re: A 3°C world has no safe place

#86

Post by yongjik »

noasaservice wrote: post #27

I'm sitting in my air conditioned room, in the USA. Doing computer stuff, naturally. I look at what I can do about this. I can turn up the temp in my room, and the house. Meager difference. I can use less water - I already am, with getting showers every other day on average. I can eat less meat - which I do with purchase of the beef CSA. I'm big into the repair movement, and repair household equipment and electronics…

Bezos and his phallic rocket is just a distraction: considering how much money he can burn, it's to him what a trip to Maui is to plebs like me. In the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter.

I think we just have to keep pushing the society (and each other) in the right direction. Hang on, I believe it will eventually get better, though it will get a lot worse before it starts to get better.

Re: A 3°C world has no safe place

#87

Post by trentnix »

noasaservice wrote: post #27

I'm sitting in my air conditioned room, in the USA. Doing computer stuff, naturally. I look at what I can do about this. I can turn up the temp in my room, and the house. Meager difference. I can use less water - I already am, with getting showers every other day on average. I can eat less meat - which I do with purchase of the beef CSA. I'm big into the repair movement, and repair household equipment and electronics…

I've given up hope that this will be solved.

The buried lede is that, if the prophets of climate doom are correct, you need to substantially reduce your standard of living. And all those third-worlders that are trying to improve their standard of living? They need to stop doing so, yesterday, and learn to accept their impoverished standard of living. But do it cleaner!

But they won't want to do that, predictably. And to get them to do so will require enforcement. And enforcement will require coercive power - so violence. And that will result in war that has the potential to be more destructive than the doom being predicted.

If the problem is as significant as alarmists predict, the only palatable solution is technological. So if you feel so motivated, concentrate your effort there. Because the data says everything else you can do is inconsequential and is mostly virtue signaling.

I'm not making any claim about the legitimacy or seriousness of global climate change. Just pointing out that the medicine we choose can destroy as much or more than the disease.

Re: A 3°C world has no safe place

#88

Post by mrits »

titzer wrote: post #29

Keep in mind that it's 3C average , over the entire globe, over a year. The locale, variance, seasonality all matter. Like, suppose that you are "lucky" in that your region gets only the average of 3C, so your year is 3C warmer on average, but that only happens during 3 months of the year, so you get 12C hotter in summer--basically, el fuego--or you get 12C in winter--basically, no more winter. A warmer winter can be…

Wouldn't it take a short amount of time to kill the beetles? Certainly it doesn't take a whole winter?

Re: A 3°C world has no safe place

#89

Post by AussieWog93 »

donatj wrote: post #28
azalemeth wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I equally wish that more Americans used SI -- Farenheit is about as familiar to me as Rankine; I have been bitten by the US use of 'mil' to mean thousandths of an inch whilst remaining how some en-gb engineers use it as inaccurate slang for mm. But this is a big distraction. Alas, I know that the whole reason we're in this pickle is that scientific literacy is low, and most people prefer short term gains over longer…

> I have been bitten by the US use of 'mil' to mean thousandths of an inch Huh, I live in the US and I've only ever heard that called a thou but wikipedia backs you up. I'd think a mil would be a millionth of an inch.

I've always been under the impression it's pronounced "thou" but written "mil" - like how "pound" is "lb."

Re: A 3°C world has no safe place

#90

Post by dmead »

scoofy wrote: post #49

American here. I took a bunch of earth science classes in college in 1999. I realized then, I would just plan ahead and aim for an urbanist lifestyle, because our country would have to change. I focused on transit alternatives as my primary advocacy, because it was the most obvious low-hanging fruit and paired with the public health. I never imagined this would happen, but as the years went on, I grew less astonished…

You're asking people to suffering annoyances and spend lots of money when the average income has been going down for 40 years. I'm surprised you're surprised.
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