A 3°C world has no safe place • Hacker News Board

Re: A 3°C world has no safe place

#61

Post by PaulDavisThe1st » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 10:53 PM UTC

noasaservice wrote: post #27

I'm sitting in my air conditioned room, in the USA. Doing computer stuff, naturally. I look at what I can do about this. I can turn up the temp in my room, and the house. Meager difference. I can use less water - I already am, with getting showers every other day on average. I can eat less meat - which I do with purchase of the beef CSA. I'm big into the repair movement, and repair household equipment and electronics…

Apparently, a reasonably sustainable level of CO2 production is about 3T per person per year. The average in the US is about 17.5T pp/yr.

But ... 5.3T pp/yr of that amount is caused by the existing coal fired power plants in the USA.

So one thing you could do is to write to your elected representatives to specifically petition for the abandonment of this form of power generation and its replacement with renewable systems.

Guaranteed to work? Nope. But if we do get rid of those plants, it will make a HUGE difference at the national and international scale.

[ EDIT: missed the 1 in front of the 7 for the average US CO2 output ... 17 not 7 ]

Re: A 3°C world has no safe place

#62

Post by jcoq » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 10:54 PM UTC

noasaservice wrote: post #27

I'm sitting in my air conditioned room, in the USA. Doing computer stuff, naturally. I look at what I can do about this. I can turn up the temp in my room, and the house. Meager difference. I can use less water - I already am, with getting showers every other day on average. I can eat less meat - which I do with purchase of the beef CSA. I'm big into the repair movement, and repair household equipment and electronics…

I agree and I know that climate engineering is a terrifyingly fraught endeavor, but I worry it's our only hope at this point.

Re: A 3°C world has no safe place

#63

Post by shawnz » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 10:54 PM UTC

spoonjim wrote: post #46

noasaservice wrote: post #27

I'm sitting in my air conditioned room, in the USA. Doing computer stuff, naturally. I look at what I can do about this. I can turn up the temp in my room, and the house. Meager difference. I can use less water - I already am, with getting showers every other day on average. I can eat less meat - which I do with purchase of the beef CSA. I'm big into the repair movement, and repair household equipment and electronics…

You could live in 200 square feet. You could bathe with one bucket of room temperature water. You could use no air conditioning whatsoever. You could eat only vegetarian food. Etc etc. You won’t, (and I won’t either) but if it comes down to human survival, forces will find a way to make you do it.

This comment has gone grey but I think it is an important point. Our basic expectancies for what makes a comfortable life are higher than ever. Is that an ethical problem or just a result of more/better technology? I'm not really sure.

Re: A 3°C world has no safe place

#64

Post by wait_a_minute » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 10:54 PM UTC

lmilcin wrote: post #31

ardit33 wrote: post #3

Canada and northern part of the US will be fine (north of the mason dixon line). Places like Albany, NY, or Minesota, or most of Canada, appart from the occasional crazy swings, are going to be more lovely places to live, with slightly milder winters. The southern part is toast, both from water level rises, and lack of fresh water. In this country, the ones that are going to be the most affected by global warming, se…

Just wait for all migrants from places that will be becoming uninhabitable.

When is this projected to happen, realistically? 100 years from now?

Re: A 3°C world has no safe place

#65

Post by scoofy » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 10:55 PM UTC

noasaservice wrote: post #27

I'm sitting in my air conditioned room, in the USA. Doing computer stuff, naturally. I look at what I can do about this. I can turn up the temp in my room, and the house. Meager difference. I can use less water - I already am, with getting showers every other day on average. I can eat less meat - which I do with purchase of the beef CSA. I'm big into the repair movement, and repair household equipment and electronics…

The American development pattern is the problem that we can actually solve. If you genuinely care, and this isn't pandering, read the book Strong Towns. Our cities are designed as inefficiently as possible, on purpose, and things like zoning and automobile infrastructure literally ban climate conscious living spaces.

We should also at least have a carbon tax for things like normalizing beef as an alternative rather than a primary food source.

Re: A 3°C world has no safe place

#66

Post by jeffbee » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 10:55 PM UTC

danans wrote: post #21

ardit33 wrote: post #3

Canada and northern part of the US will be fine (north of the mason dixon line). Places like Albany, NY, or Minesota, or most of Canada, appart from the occasional crazy swings, are going to be more lovely places to live, with slightly milder winters. The southern part is toast, both from water level rises, and lack of fresh water. In this country, the ones that are going to be the most affected by global warming, se…

> In this country, the ones that are going to be the most affected by global warming, seem like to care the less. This is ignoring the fact that if the southern coastal US is toast the northern areas are going to have a climate refugee crisis on their hands.

Many coastal people seem to assume that the federal government will bail them out in great abundance, which, let's face it, is probably true.

Re: A 3°C world has no safe place

#67

Post by _eht » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 10:56 PM UTC

spoonjim wrote: post #46

noasaservice wrote: post #27

I'm sitting in my air conditioned room, in the USA. Doing computer stuff, naturally. I look at what I can do about this. I can turn up the temp in my room, and the house. Meager difference. I can use less water - I already am, with getting showers every other day on average. I can eat less meat - which I do with purchase of the beef CSA. I'm big into the repair movement, and repair household equipment and electronics…

You could live in 200 square feet. You could bathe with one bucket of room temperature water. You could use no air conditioning whatsoever. You could eat only vegetarian food. Etc etc. You won’t, (and I won’t either) but if it comes down to human survival, forces will find a way to make you do it.

Not sure why you're being down voted-- This is the right answer. I see people getting mad at suppliers but they have yet to realize they would still please like their consumption supplied...

Re: A 3°C world has no safe place

#68

Post by 01100011 » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 10:56 PM UTC

noasaservice wrote: post #27

I'm sitting in my air conditioned room, in the USA. Doing computer stuff, naturally. I look at what I can do about this. I can turn up the temp in my room, and the house. Meager difference. I can use less water - I already am, with getting showers every other day on average. I can eat less meat - which I do with purchase of the beef CSA. I'm big into the repair movement, and repair household equipment and electronics…

IMO individual action is nearly worthless beyond making you feel better. I did all the right things for decades and someone else just consumed the resources I saved by building golf courses and taking international vacations.

The world needs more Elon Musk types to think big and bring a lower carbon footprint to modern living. Thinking people will voluntarily put themselves at a disadvantage for the greater good goes against much of what we know of human nature.

Re: A 3°C world has no safe place

#69

Post by abeppu » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 10:56 PM UTC

noasaservice wrote: post #27

I'm sitting in my air conditioned room, in the USA. Doing computer stuff, naturally. I look at what I can do about this. I can turn up the temp in my room, and the house. Meager difference. I can use less water - I already am, with getting showers every other day on average. I can eat less meat - which I do with purchase of the beef CSA. I'm big into the repair movement, and repair household equipment and electronics…

Up until now, I think it's been too hard to direct your money away from the companies emitting loads of carbon. But I wonder, now that Europe is talking about a border tax for imported carbon, and the US has introduced legislation for a border tax, could that change, even before other places institute the same? To be eligible for import to Europe, would producers elsewhere need to tally and report the carbon associated with goods, such that non-European consumers could also finally have the information to choose lower-emission options?

Re: A 3°C world has no safe place

#70

Post by noasaservice » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 10:56 PM UTC

titzer wrote: post #44

noasaservice wrote: post #27

I'm sitting in my air conditioned room, in the USA. Doing computer stuff, naturally. I look at what I can do about this. I can turn up the temp in my room, and the house. Meager difference. I can use less water - I already am, with getting showers every other day on average. I can eat less meat - which I do with purchase of the beef CSA. I'm big into the repair movement, and repair household equipment and electronics…

> I look at what I'm actually doing, and I'm at my limit. Smaller house, solar panels, don't drive, don't eat meat, and don't have kids. And don't vote for politicians who are busy spreading nonsense. > I've given up hope that this will be solved. Oh, me too. Now it is about managing your personal guilt, which you realize at some level, judging from your comments. For me, I am likely past my lifetime CO2 budget, due…

> Smaller house, solar panels, don't drive, don't eat meat, and don't have kids. And don't vote for politicians who are busy spreading nonsense.

I already live in a trailer. Solar wouldn't make sense since we have 2 big trees over our trailer providing us shade. Cuts down on AC in the hotter months (now veering on March).

Not driving has been easy with WfH since last early March. I'm happy with that. I don't like driving anyways.

My SO and I are a DINK - double income no kids. This is one of the largest climate change decisions that can be made at a human level.

> And don't vote for politicians who are busy spreading nonsense.

Oh, I don't. Nor do I have any preconceived notions that my opinion does matter either. I'll do my civic part, and vote when its due, do jury duty, etc. But my opinions do not matter at any scale other than household.

I guess for me, it's not as much guilt, but foreboding. I know what the science says, and it'll be worse than what they say. I know I've done my share of pollution of many sorts, simply by using a vehicle, or flying.

But this problem isn't solvable by me. Or my politicians.. Or even by the USA. This needs a worldwide drastic response at every level. And do I see that happening? Not in a hundred years - until it's catastrophically too late.