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If Richard Feynman applied for a job at Microsoft (2002)

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Re: If Richard Feynman applied for a job at Microsoft (2002)

#181

Post by JadeNB »

goodcanadian wrote: post #80
hungryforcodes wrote: post #7

I've read it before, but it's always such a fun read. The author got Feynman's speaking style down perfectly.

Well, I think it gets it wrong when it comes to the safety issue question. Something being possible, even if unlikely, is obviously more dangerous than something being impossible. Feynman would definitely understand that even if he insisted that the main reason for the shape of the cover is the shape of the hole (which is probably true). EDIT: Assuming Feynman is deliberately being obtuse, he might point out that, wh…

> Something being possible, even if unlikely, is obviously more dangerous than something being impossible. Feynman would definitely understand that even if he insisted that the main reason for the shape of the cover is the shape of the hole (which is probably true).

This is a very good point for someone who is known, among other things, for his O-ring demonstration (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogers_Commission_Report#Role_...).

Re: If Richard Feynman applied for a job at Microsoft (2002)

#182

Post by JadeNB »

goodcanadian wrote: post #74
RHSeeger wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can also optimize for - The highest likelihood of getting your choice with a single pick - The least amount of money spent to guarantee getting your choice

If you take as given, "none of them are correct," I think both of those optimisations still start with pressing Pepsi. It is either Coke or random, so you have about a 75% chance of getting what you want on the first press.

At a quick glance, everyone in this thread seems to be assuming 'random' gives you Coke or Pepsi with equal probability ….

Re: If Richard Feynman applied for a job at Microsoft (2002)

#183

Post by babelfish »

gorwell wrote: post #152
hoten wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GP saw an opportunity to be anti-woke and jumped on it. It's what passes for humor in some circles. Jump on a "woke" thing that is clearly ridiculous and no more than 0.001% of people agree with, offer it up as a strawman of PC culture, and use it to ridicule liberals. It's especially egregious here because it has nothing to do with the shared article, unless you consider any conversation on Feynman as a bridge to ta…

It's not to ridicule liberals. I'm a liberal. It's to mock the illiberalism and totalitarianism that is replacing liberalism, and is increasingly flexing its power in our cultural institutions.

How was that relevant to the article?

Re: If Richard Feynman applied for a job at Microsoft (2002)

#184

Post by FabHK »

derekp7 wrote: post #138
hintymad wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I buy this type of attack. How is this different from calculating yield of a bomb as Fermi did? It's back-of-envelope calculation that physicists do all the time. Ping Pong in a Boeing is merely a setup with the least context. This is like criticizing a math teacher for asking elementary students to calculate how long it takes to fill a swimming pool when water is flowing in and out of the pool at the sa…

This is fine if the question relates to something that the candidate is familiar with. But I have personally never set foot in a 747, much less be able to come up with any estimate of the dimensions in order to estimate volume. Then there is the formula to determine the packing volume of ping pong balls. Just like the question of how much water dumps out of the Amazon river per day. Yes, I can write down a formula wi…

> I have personally never set foot in a 747

Ok. Do you know how many people it carries? Is it about 10, 300, or 10,000?

And how many spheres of diameter 1 can you pack into a cube of length 1? About 0.13, 1.3, or 13?

What else do you need, seriously?

Re: If Richard Feynman applied for a job at Microsoft (2002)

#185

Post by zepolen »

jfengel wrote: post #121
jerf wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you, and as such, I suggest simply asking such an estimation problem set in the computing world. It also has the advantage that you can get into discussions of things relevant to computing, like finding out how much they understand about orders of magnitude time like socket communication times to various distances, speeds of disks, etc. One of the reasons I don't like "how many ping pong balls" etc. is t…

I think there's advantages and disadvantages to either approach. In this case, the thing I like about it is having them talk through their reasoning, regardless of the domain. If it's a domain they're familiar with I get the benefit of their knowledge, but it also takes longer because the specificity raises a lot more questions. If it's an unfamiliar domain, I get a glimpse of their creativity with a problem they hav…

I find it pointless to convince someone who doesn't see the value of thinking about solutions to problems they've never seen before. They will never be pioneers and that's okay, an organization needs both.

Re: If Richard Feynman applied for a job at Microsoft (2002)

#186

Post by FabHK »

nickff wrote: post #155
memco wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why use the pool at all if you already have useful examples of inflow and outflow of money or another or the queue at the grocery store? Someone of age to understand flow rates of liquid would likely be able to understand money enough to be able to do the same calculations can’t get the same principles but with a functional analogy instead.

There are an infinite number of variations on the problem; you could also ask about a reservoir with inflows and outflows, or a water tower, or a continuous distillation process. I think the money variant is actually one of the worst, as it evokes no imagery (in an era of largely digital transactions), but I'm not sure the exact question asked really matters. If someone fights a hypothetical, they're usually being ad…

> I think the money variant is actually one of the worst, as it evokes no imagery

Plus money is obviously discrete, while water is conceptually nice and continuous.

Re: If Richard Feynman applied for a job at Microsoft (2002)

#187

Post by goodcanadian »

JadeNB wrote: post #182
goodcanadian wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you take as given, "none of them are correct," I think both of those optimisations still start with pressing Pepsi. It is either Coke or random, so you have about a 75% chance of getting what you want on the first press.

At a quick glance, everyone in this thread seems to be assuming 'random' gives you Coke or Pepsi with equal probability ….

Regardless of the probability distribution of the random button, it does not change the optimal strategy. By pressing the Pepsi button, you are either going to get Coke (you "win") or Pepsi (so you know the button is random and you "win" by pressing random on the next go which you now know is Coke).

Re: If Richard Feynman applied for a job at Microsoft (2002)

#188

Post by FabHK »

deanCommie wrote: post #135
okareaman wrote: post #75

How many ping pong balls would it take to fill a 747? Why do you ask? What problem are you trying to solve? We want to understand your thought process I'd think it was stupid to fill a 747 with ping pong balls and think about something else

The real problem with that question isn't that it's stupid. Everyone knows it's stupid, it's testing your ability to come up with an estimate in a domain you're not too familiar with using "napkin math". That's a legitimate skill and asset in software engineering. The real problem is that the ability to come up with a good napkin math estimate for a technical problem doesn't correlate with the ability to actually do…

> the ability to come up with a good napkin math estimate for a technical problem doesn't correlate with the ability to actually do the job to solve the problem.

You realise that that's a very strong (and probably wrong) statement? Those two abilities are obviously distinct, but quite probably positively correlated. So while there are be better interview questions, the answer to this question tells you something about the candidate.

Re: If Richard Feynman applied for a job at Microsoft (2002)

#189

Post by FabHK »

rcpt wrote: post #90
cableshaft wrote: post #3

I was expecting something a little different, where they passed on him because he didn't give the 'right' answer (what the interviewer had preconceived and/or looked up online).

You know how police have to take an IQ test and get denied the job if they score too high? Like that, but for tech interviews.

> police have to take an IQ test and get denied the job if they score too high

Pilots as well, apparently.

Re: If Richard Feynman applied for a job at Microsoft (2002)

#190

Post by JadeNB »

goodcanadian wrote: post #187
JadeNB wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At a quick glance, everyone in this thread seems to be assuming 'random' gives you Coke or Pepsi with equal probability ….

Regardless of the probability distribution of the random button, it does not change the optimal strategy. By pressing the Pepsi button, you are either going to get Coke (you "win") or Pepsi (so you know the button is random and you "win" by pressing random on the next go which you now know is Coke).

> Regardless of the probability distribution of the random button, it does not change the optimal strategy.

I agree, and didn't mean to suggest otherwise. I was just referring to the specific probability computations being made.

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