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Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

theatlantic.com

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Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#371

Post by mattnewton »

xyzzy21 wrote: post #101
charlesju wrote: post #12

Isn't GPA even easier to game than SATs? -- Private schools can curve more leniently so its pay to play -- Rich schools tend to have more AP/Honor courses which inflate weighted GPAs I went to one of the best public schools in America and it was not uncommon for someone to take 100% AP/Honors and get a 4.5+ GPA.

Private schools could but in my experience as a private HS grad, they DO NOT. There are other factors that prevent that.

This kind of drives home the bigger issue though, that grades between two schools look like comparable numbers but aren't.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#372

Post by slownews45 »

honkycat wrote: post #220

I went to a RURAL school. My graduating class was 20 people. We didn't really do SAT prep, basically all time was eaten up triaging students who were struggling, and dealing with poorly behaved students. Or the teachers were sometimes completely lazy. I didn't even know AP classes EXISTED. I got to go home for a work study after my first class senior year because I had taken all of the classes available to me. A lot…

It's funny because in California the SAT is one of the only ways you could basically test into the UC system even if your school didn't offer the required A-G courses.

So you could go to a crappy school, but could show you had a reasonable chance to do well in college and test into the UC system from almost anywhere.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#373

Post by mcguire »

wyldfire wrote: post #294
pfisherman wrote: post #15

I think the University of Texas has one of simplest and most egalitarian admissions policies that I have seen. If you graduate in the top 10 percent of your class, then you are guaranteed admission to all state funded universities. As a Californian I find it quite ironic that many policies in “conservative” Texas (ex. university admissions, property tax, income tax) are more much more progressive than what we have in…

I've heard of some families gaming this system by having their students attend less competitive high schools in order to improve their rank.

The problem I see with that is that, if you are rich enough to game the system that way, you are probably rich enough to be gaming the system in order to get your kids into something other than a state school.

Unless we involve football, for example. Sports break the model.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#375

Post by slownews45 »

enaaem wrote: post #362

Im from the Netherlands and US education seems to be worst of both socialism and capitalism: lack of choice and sky high prices. In the Netherlands we have: Free choice of high school. I grew up in the poorest neighbourhood of the city and I still went to a very decent high school with classmates from all backgrounds. More and smaller high schools. More choice and competition between schools. Schools are subsidised b…

Note that because of diversity issues the US is moving away from any form of levels (called tracking). The problem they had was that the advanced / AP / pre-med / doctor levels etc had over-reps in white / asian. The push in the US is for more group work, less tracking so that all students including various racial groups that have historically not done as well can move together through system.

Europe had tracks for things like trade schools / skill based schools and other programs - US is very focused on academics / college / university etc.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#376

Post by logicalmind »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #184

At this point I'm really wondering what the ostensible purpose of Universities is, as opposed to their true purpose of wealth signaling. We live in an age where university level lectures and materials are available for free. Why are we paying a ton of money to obtain a limited slot that allows us to show up at a building for the same lectures and materials? Is it personal attention? Almost certainly not, but even if…

In my opinion there are a few reasons to attend college:

1. You legitimately want to expand human knowledge beyond what exists. This should be the ultimate goal of a PHD. Whether or not this produces important output (in the capitalistic sense, aka is profitable) is secondary to attaining the new knowledge.

2. You want to attain high level knowledge of a subject AND the best way you learn is by having a strict course regiment with a decent teacher-to-student ratio.

3. You just want that check mark on your resume when you try to get a job.

#1 isn't about getting a job. #2 and #3 have some overlap in that the ultimate goal of both tends to be securing a job. The difference between them is how an individual learns material. Some people can read a book, or view youtube lectures, then take some tests and learn sufficiently that way (#3). But some people require #2 style learning.

But let's be honest, the vast majority of people attending college are for #2 or #3. Meaning, it is ultimately about getting a job. So as long as a job in a desired fields requires a degree, people will essentially be required to get them. The trend is recent years seems to be the dramatic split between #2 and #3 style learning.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#378

Post by tdhz77 »

xwdv wrote: post #348
908B64B197 wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not even counted as "diverse" (because I'm not black or hispanic) despite coming from a muslim family and middle eastern background. I can only select "white", though I'm not white white. Should that even matter for admission purposes?

Absolutely not. Any attributes like race and gender should play no consideration in a fair admissions process. It should not even be public information.

The color blind thinking modal has a long history of helping the majority stay the majority. What you propose is to continuing allow the status quo, which has already by statistical aggregation of college entrance proved to allow under performing “whites” in. Have you not seen the news where Aunt Becky got her kid in? Without tough affirmative action rules, Aunt becky’s kids get in and your kids don’t.

This thinking model is best to be dropped into the dustbins of history.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#379

Post by mattmcknight »

enaaem wrote: post #362

Im from the Netherlands and US education seems to be worst of both socialism and capitalism: lack of choice and sky high prices. In the Netherlands we have: Free choice of high school. I grew up in the poorest neighbourhood of the city and I still went to a very decent high school with classmates from all backgrounds. More and smaller high schools. More choice and competition between schools. Schools are subsidised b…

>"Free choice of high school"

How does this work when 25% of the students want to go to the "best" one? Is it really not free choice, but free choice of schools for which your exam scores qualify you?

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#380

Post by thaumasiotes »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #321
thaumasiotes wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Shouldn't this be fixed earlier, and not after they get the lower scores? There is no point earlier than when they get the lower scores. The performance gap is apparent at all ages where performance can be measured at all.

But why fix then? Will the performance gap vanish when they get accepted by an university (even if someone else from some other group, wouldn't get accepted with the same score)?

> Will the performance gap vanish when they get accepted by an university

No.

> But why fix then?

It's an ideological commitment, not a reasoned one.

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