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Autonomy founder Mike Lynch can be extradited to US

bbc.com

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Re: Autonomy founder Mike Lynch can be extradited to US

#201

Post by trasz »

rhino369 wrote: post #199
trasz wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, the US tends to protect its criminals from justice, as long as they work for the government. It’s not callous, though, it’s just bullying. The “scapegoat” argument could make sense in a few countries without proper judicial system, but obviously doesn’t make sense with European countries.

The "scapegoat" argument makes sense here too. Mrs. Sacoolas was seen as a personification of Trump's foreign policy. People were calling for her head, for an crime that generally doesn't even receive jail time (in the UK or USA). People don't normally get incensed over non-DUI car accidents. People were out for blood because her husband and allegedly she worked for US intelligence agencies. If she was just a tourist…

No, people wanted blood because she avoided all responsibility by lying about diplomatic immunity and fleeing the country. Nobody would say a thing if she did have a minimum of dignity and didn’t behave like a professional criminal.

The only reason for mentioning her being a spook is how she used that fact to escape.

Re: Autonomy founder Mike Lynch can be extradited to US

#202

Post by trasz »

rhino369 wrote: post #198
gadders wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's pretty good evidence that she didn't have diplomatic immunity at the time of the incident: https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2019/10/the-foreign-... (And say what you like about Craig Murray, he was an ex-diplomat so should understand the rules around immunity).

Both the State Department and the UK High Court agreed she did. The US and UK even changed the rule to remove diplomatic immunity from spouses of people at that base after the incident (but not retroactively), which proves she did have it at the time.

I’m not aware of High Court determining that. I’m aware of American court proving that she didn’t. The State Department doesn’t have any reason not to lie, given that they facilitated her escape.

Re: Autonomy founder Mike Lynch can be extradited to US

#203

Post by Buge »

trhway wrote: post #188
Ostrogodsky wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I am getting this wrong but that is not the opposite. I think OP said: An UK citizen can be extradicted from the UK to the US just by having done a thing that it is illegal in the US but not in the UK. You said: An US citizen can be charged in the US if he committed a crime abroad even if that thing is not typified as illegal in the US. Wake me up when an US citizen is extradicted to the UK because he did somet…

>Wake me up when an US citizen is extradicted to the UK because he did something perfectly legal in Washington but which is considered a crime in London. If it were the case, I suppose tens of millions of US people could be extradited that way given the differences in free speech laws - a lot of what is said in US is probably a crime [IANAL] in UK :)

Yeah, I think that's the point Ostrogodsky is making. It's weird to evaluate someone's action in country A based on laws in country B.

Re: Autonomy founder Mike Lynch can be extradited to US

#204

Post by dathinab »

zepto wrote: post #36
dathinab wrote: post #6

As far as I can tell US prisons (in generally, not necessary all but I think most) are basically a heap of human right violations. In that context I think extraditing anyone to the US should be treated as a human right violation and as such should not be done. And even if we ignore their prisons from a German Law POV a lot of their law is fundamentally in conflict with the values represented by the constitution and m…

Consider Assange in Belmarsh. For the Uk to rule that Us prisons are human rights violations it would have to apply the same ruling to itself.

Yes, they should.

But then just because there is a similar problem elsewhere doesn't mean we should ignore either of them or only fix them together.

Re: Autonomy founder Mike Lynch can be extradited to US

#205

Post by downandout »

dragonwriter wrote: post #131
downandout wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The kind of prison he goes to will depend on the length of his sentence. Federal prisons have a reputation for being relatively tame, but this is only true at the minimum security level. Inmates with more than 10 years on their sentences cannot be placed at minimum security facilities, however. The remainder of the security levels - low, medium, and high - are the the kinds of places you see in movies with all of the…

> For an $11 billion fraud, he would be sentenced to either life, or hundreds of years in prison Well, none of the charges has a life sentence available, so that option is not possible. It does look like the statutory maximum for the offenses at issue combined is 280 years, but I haven't bothered to pull out the sentencing guidelines and see if, even, with $11 billion in frauds, that's likely without factors not obvi…

It does look like the statutory maximum for the offenses at issue combined is 280 years

Is that not effectively a life sentence without the possibility of parole? So the point of your response is to point out that he will not get life, but rather, up to 280 years?

Well, no, every rumored problem isn't real, and every real problem isn't experienced by every prisoner at all (much less daily.)

You're trying to argue that he might not experience every horror every day - just some of them, depending on the day? Rapes occur daily in prisons. He might not get raped every day, but he almost certainly will over 280 years in a high security prison (since you claim that is not a life sentence). The rape problem in US prisons is so bad that there is actually a law called PREA - the Prison Rape Elimination Act [1].

I see that pedantry is still alive and well among some on HN.

[1] https://www.prearesourcecenter.org/about/prison-rape-elimina...

Re: Autonomy founder Mike Lynch can be extradited to US

#206

Post by zepto »

dathinab wrote: post #204
zepto wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consider Assange in Belmarsh. For the Uk to rule that Us prisons are human rights violations it would have to apply the same ruling to itself.

Yes, they should. But then just because there is a similar problem elsewhere doesn't mean we should ignore either of them or only fix them together.

> But then just because there is a similar problem elsewhere doesn't mean we should ignore either of them or only fix them together.

What are you talking about? This seems like a non-sequitur.

Re: Autonomy founder Mike Lynch can be extradited to US

#207

Post by dragonwriter »

downandout wrote: post #205
dragonwriter wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For an $11 billion fraud, he would be sentenced to either life, or hundreds of years in prison Well, none of the charges has a life sentence available, so that option is not possible. It does look like the statutory maximum for the offenses at issue combined is 280 years, but I haven't bothered to pull out the sentencing guidelines and see if, even, with $11 billion in frauds, that's likely without factors not obvi…

It does look like the statutory maximum for the offenses at issue combined is 280 years Is that not effectively a life sentence without the possibility of parole? So the point of your response is to point out that he will not get life, but rather, up to 280 years? Well, no, every rumored problem isn't real, and every real problem isn't experienced by every prisoner at all (much less daily.) You're trying to argue tha…

> Is that not effectively a life sentence without the possibility of parole?

The claim was that he would be sentenced to life or hundreds od years based on the charges and the amount in controversy. I was pointing out that while the second option may be at least theoretically possible, the first was not.

(Are the two practically equivalent? Sure, but the claim was that the charges would support either sentence, not that it would support a sentence materially ewut to life in prison.)

> You're trying to argue that he might not experience every horror every day - just some of them, depending on the day?

I’m pointing out that depending on which rumored horrors you consider, they might never occur in reality at all (rumor and fact arr different things), and even the ones that are factual horrors might never occur to the vast majority of prisoners, and even ones that are more common might never impact a particular prisoner and, yes, even the ones that happen to impact a particular prisoner often don’t do so daily, so the claim that he would be subjected to every rumored horror of US prisons every day of his sentence relies on so many levels of hyberbole as to be beyond absurd.

Re: Autonomy founder Mike Lynch can be extradited to US

#208

Post by fakedang »

Ostrogodsky wrote: post #146
Spooky23 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The opposite is true as well. A US person can be federally charged for violating a foreign law while overseas. The example used when I read of this was a guy convicted for wrapping lobsters for shipment in Nicaragua in wax paper instead of a bag (or something along those lines). It was very strange because the violation in Nicaragua was a misdemeanor, but the US law for committing a crime is a felony.

Maybe I am getting this wrong but that is not the opposite. I think OP said: An UK citizen can be extradicted from the UK to the US just by having done a thing that it is illegal in the US but not in the UK. You said: An US citizen can be charged in the US if he committed a crime abroad even if that thing is not typified as illegal in the US. Wake me up when an US citizen is extradicted to the UK because he did somet…

Heck, are we forgetting Anne Sacoolas' case? She committed a hit and run, which is a crime in both the US and the UK, yet she hasn't been extradited.

UK's sovereignty is a joke.

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