“I would buy a Mac today if I was not working at Microsoft” (2004) • Hacker News Board

Re: “I would buy a Mac today if I was not working at Microsoft” (2004)

#91

Post by some-guy » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 9:18 PM UTC

hdjjhhvvhga wrote: post #9

zokier wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that's the opposite, read the followup: https://twitter.com/TechEmails/status/1418259351140188166?s=...

When reading his reply[0] it's obvious he was right in the original email when he said he saw no solution to this problem. They even tried to start from scratch and the result was still arguably the worst Windows edition ever. [0] http://web.archive.org/web/20070107170621/http://windowsvist...

I'll be honest, I didn't notice many differences between Windows 7 and Windows Vista SP1. I agree Windows Vista was absolutely terrible when it came out, but so was XP. And so was 98. And 95.

Re: “I would buy a Mac today if I was not working at Microsoft” (2004)

#92

Post by brundolf » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 9:18 PM UTC

sushisource wrote: post #84

legitster wrote: post #81

I think it's pretty telling that there are lots of letters like this from Microsoft, but almost none from Apple. I can't imagine someone from Apple writing a letter like this to Jobs and still working at Apple.

I agree, but seemingly that hasn't mattered or helped much? Apple is a more valuable company in terms of market cap, and almost certainly a more 'loved' company in terms of mindshare. Many people thought they'd be doomed without Jobs but they've seemingly been doing just fine still (ignoring many valid criticisms here, of course, but talking about the general population). Which I really find fascinating. Aside from t…

There are two things that have always set Apple apart in my opinion:

1) Landscape-shifting new product categories

2) Holistic, "scenario"-driven product design (as the author was advocating for)

#1 mostly died with Jobs, imo. But #2 seems to still have deep cultural roots at the company. They don't think in terms of component parts (at the hardware, software, UI, or any other level). They think in terms of making a device that a person can use for things they care about. They start from the top and work downward, everything else serving that ultimate end. Microsoft still doesn't do this, Google still doesn't do this.

That was enough on its own, but now 14 years of investing iPhone profits have added "sheer technical excellence" to the equation, giving them an additional edge.

Re: “I would buy a Mac today if I was not working at Microsoft” (2004)

#93

Post by ska » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 9:18 PM UTC

qwerty456127 wrote: post #16

A friend of mine preferred Apple for hardware and Microsoft for software. About a decade ago he bought a MacBook and installed Windows 7.

This was the standard setup for a bunch of people I knew doing windows development around then - according to them the MBP was far and away the best (laptop) windows hardware available at the time.

Re: “I would buy a Mac today if I was not working at Microsoft” (2004)

#94

Post by Eric_WVGG » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 9:20 PM UTC

legitster wrote: post #81

I think it's pretty telling that there are lots of letters like this from Microsoft, but almost none from Apple. I can't imagine someone from Apple writing a letter like this to Jobs and still working at Apple.

"… and still working at Apple" I can't imagine someone from Apple writing a letter like that either, but mostly because OS X, at the time of this writing, was amazing and getting better at a rapid clip, while Windows was its nadir.

Are you implying that there would have been reprisal? Because this whole thing happened just a couple years before a notorious incident where Jobs walked into a meeting and asked the Macbook team why the laptops were so inferior to iPads. He was notoriously critical of their own products.

Re: “I would buy a Mac today if I was not working at Microsoft” (2004)

#95

Post by brundolf » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 9:22 PM UTC

jodrellblank wrote: post #88

sushisource wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, but seemingly that hasn't mattered or helped much? Apple is a more valuable company in terms of market cap, and almost certainly a more 'loved' company in terms of mindshare. Many people thought they'd be doomed without Jobs but they've seemingly been doing just fine still (ignoring many valid criticisms here, of course, but talking about the general population). Which I really find fascinating. Aside from t…

Just to take a recent HN front page example, the link to SyncThing. It says " Since Android phones, at least, are Linux-based, one need only set up a normal shell environment on it and put Syncthing there to achieve this goal; the process shouldn't take more than a day or so. " The disconnect between the two worlds "people who use Apple products" and "people who think a day or so of your life is a reasonable amount o…

This sums up my return to the iPhone. I was an android user from 2012 to 2018. I loved messing with things, customizing, problem-solving when things would break.

And then eventually, I just... got over it. There were other things I'd rather spend my finite energy on. I wanted my phone to do phone things and do them well, and without me having to think about it.

Re: “I would buy a Mac today if I was not working at Microsoft” (2004)

#96

Post by filoleg » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 9:23 PM UTC

ydnaclementine wrote: post #61

Naive question, today can you work at microsoft as use a mac for development on the job? (non windows specific development of course) I think about how if you work at apple, you're probably strongly pushed to not use an android phone (I'm sure some exist). Compared to google, you could probably use either android or ios (even with google "owning" android), or mac, windows, or their own flavor of ubuntu for developmen…

Yep. Currently working there as a dev on a team completely unrelated to Apple (i.e., i am not working on iOS apps or anything else that even remotely requires a macbook), using a company-issued macbook pro. And of course, you are always welcome to bring your own machine of any kind, as long as it allows you to do things you are doing for work (e.g., if you are working on something super-windows-specific that just straight up cannot be done on macOS, well, you better get a different machine or install windows on your macbook through Bootcamp).

Re: “I would buy a Mac today if I was not working at Microsoft” (2004)

#97

Post by sushisource » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 9:24 PM UTC

jodrellblank wrote: post #88

sushisource wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, but seemingly that hasn't mattered or helped much? Apple is a more valuable company in terms of market cap, and almost certainly a more 'loved' company in terms of mindshare. Many people thought they'd be doomed without Jobs but they've seemingly been doing just fine still (ignoring many valid criticisms here, of course, but talking about the general population). Which I really find fascinating. Aside from t…

Just to take a recent HN front page example, the link to SyncThing. It says " Since Android phones, at least, are Linux-based, one need only set up a normal shell environment on it and put Syncthing there to achieve this goal; the process shouldn't take more than a day or so. " The disconnect between the two worlds "people who use Apple products" and "people who think a day or so of your life is a reasonable amount o…

I take your point for sure, but, that's not really what we're comparing against, is it?

The comparison is more like google drive, or whatever MS's version of that is now. At that point the distinction seems relatively minor to me.

Re: “I would buy a Mac today if I was not working at Microsoft” (2004)

#98

Post by jeromenerf » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 9:24 PM UTC

Imnimo wrote: post #86

LennyWhiteJr wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remap caps lock to escape.

Yeah, I strongly considered that last time it happened. Eventually I was able to fix it by restarting a few processes related to the touchbar, and decided to leave well enough alone for fear of breaking something else. I think if it starts happening more frequently, I'll remap it.

Capslock as esc/ctrl is great. Or Delete/Cmd. Whatever actually, as long as it’s not capslock.

Re: “I would buy a Mac today if I was not working at Microsoft” (2004)

#99

Post by ThrowawayB7 » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 9:25 PM UTC

sidcool wrote: post #36

I feel that the only reason Microsoft survived the 2000s was their deep entrenchment into the enterprise. If the same continued in the 2010s, they would likely be on life support by now.

> "deep entrenchment into the enterprise"

If that was all it took, Sun Microsystems would still be alive too.

Re: “I would buy a Mac today if I was not working at Microsoft” (2004)

#100

Post by brailsafe » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 9:28 PM UTC

ydnaclementine wrote: post #61

Naive question, today can you work at microsoft as use a mac for development on the job? (non windows specific development of course) I think about how if you work at apple, you're probably strongly pushed to not use an android phone (I'm sure some exist). Compared to google, you could probably use either android or ios (even with google "owning" android), or mac, windows, or their own flavor of ubuntu for developmen…

I've heard accounts from some Google devs that Windows machines became quite scarce once Bing was caught scraping Google search. Not totally sure if that was true or not.