Why is the university of California dropping the SAT? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#331

Post by raunak » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 9:17 PM UTC

Dracophoenix wrote: post #24

charlesju wrote: post #12

Isn't GPA even easier to game than SATs? -- Private schools can curve more leniently so its pay to play -- Rich schools tend to have more AP/Honor courses which inflate weighted GPAs I went to one of the best public schools in America and it was not uncommon for someone to take 100% AP/Honors and get a 4.5+ GPA.

Would the school you went to be TJHSST?

Well, I graduated from TJ this year (2021) and it wasn’t very common for people to have a 4.5+. Yes, some, but not the average by any stretch - average was probably a 4.2, or a 4.3.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#332

Post by rdtwo » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 9:18 PM UTC

svachalek wrote: post #210

MathYouF wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is in fact exactly what happens in Texas. I've met many people who attended UT whose parents or friend's parents did exactly that for the explicit purpose of increasing their chances of their child being in the top 7% of their graduating class so that they could get automatic admission to UT Austin, a very good school to attend compared to the usual options for someone graduaitng #35 in a class of 500 from a pub…

Well, assuming this also moves funding this may actually do wonders for balancing out the system. And there may be some benefits to all the students, in seeing how the other half lives, making more advanced classes available in poorer neighborhoods, etc.

Yeah I agree this improves diversity and combats school district segregation. I think this is exactly the intent and works as it should.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#333

Post by starchild_3001 » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 9:18 PM UTC

Cancelling SAT (especially subject exams) is the stupidest decision I've seen anywhere. Make access more fair? Sure. Cancel it? Plain wrong!

How do I know? I'm one of those students who didn't have stellar high school grades, but I excelled in subject exams --- those subjects were genuinely interesting to me (math, science). I didn't find the rest of high school interesting, and I wasn't a nerd nerd studying anything my parents told me to study. I turned out "ok" (graduated as the top my class in college, then had a successful career in top tech companies). Without that final exam that gave me the opportunity, I probably wouldn't be typing this message today.

I'm not even counted as "diverse" (because I'm not black or hispanic) despite coming from a muslim family and middle eastern background. I can only select "white", though I'm not really white (european).

Today's admission debates and anti-racist treatments are wrong at so many levels, I don't know where to start.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#334

Post by rdtwo » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 9:18 PM UTC

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #173

Manuel_D wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not necessarily. Wealthier parents are more mobile, and can move residences such that their children are in the top 10%.

In practice they want nothing to do with the poors so they cluster into "good" school districts.

Yeah I mean you always want the best for your own kid that’s normal

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#335

Post by tomjakubowski » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 9:19 PM UTC

mcguire wrote: post #284

kcatskcolbdi wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You......ask what people got on the SATs in your job interview?

Well, it is basically an IQ test.

In other words, an SAT score is most meaningful at the low end of the range?

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#336

Post by austincheney » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 9:20 PM UTC

fridif wrote: post #192

Don't understand the hate for the SAT. Where I went to school, students would just beg their teachers for better grades and it literally worked. I did average on my SAT compared to my ex-gf in college (top 30 US school) but I ran a 3.8 in college compared to her being a C student. Doesn't matter anyway because none of the stuff I learned in college is used in my daily job as a java developer.

SAT is a standardized test of academic performance, where in there is an affirmed bias in what criteria you qualify as education worth testing. That bias is substantially amplified by dedicated preparation, which requires assets that are egalitarian.

This means wealthy families are substantially advantaged in SAT test performance. As a measure of preparation more than potential it may well serve as strong indicator future academic participation, but for all the wrong reasons. As such it can be used as a tool for exclusivity as a measure of anything.

To adequately test for performance biases aside divergent tests are better than conforming tests. The difference is the former tests for answer distribution, quantity, and validity where the later asserts correctness by asserting one answer against a single approved answer.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#337

Post by _RPL5_ » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 9:20 PM UTC

b9a2cab5 wrote: post #141

pie420 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then ask for a raise. Two people making $140k should easily be able to save up $400k in 5-8 years for a mortgage down payment. And single people don't need an entire house.

Clearly you've never tried to purchase real estate in the Bay or done the math. $140k after taxes is more like 90k, and then rent eats up $25k of that alone. Subtract another $25k for living expenses (food, insurance, car, etc.) and you're left with 40k, which realistically you'd be dumping into a retirement fund. 2 bedroom house in a decent location with decent schools costs well over $1.5M, plus the insane property…

"functioning real estate markets"

Is the housing market in the Bay area really uniquely dysfunctional? High property prices are a result of demand outstripping supply. It's what you get for concentrating the entire tech industry in one place. Similar to Manhattan and the financial industry.

In that regard, the real estate market in the Bay area is basically working as intended. Or am I missing something?

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#338

Post by scottLobster » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 9:20 PM UTC

hellbannedguy wrote: post #300

Aunche wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

High calibre students not only help the university's rankings, but also other students. A few of my courses had absolutely terrible lecturers, but we managed to more or less learn the material from each other.

I had a girlfriend at U C Davis, and I found the opposite. The best students were called 4clickers. They sat in the front row, with four color pens in hand. They never helped, and one on occasion turned her in for cheating. She used to talk about how competitive thstudrnts were. They all wanted a spot in a graduate program. It was the most depressing school I ever visited. Couldn't wait to leave on Sunday. (I was sup…

Yeah it really depends on the students' objectives/options. For Electrical/Computer Engineering majors at my University we all knew we were all going to at least get decent jobs at graduation, those going to Grad school were the minority. So it was a very collegial atmosphere for the most part.

But if you're in one of those programs where the Undergrad is fairly worthless by itself and are competing for a limited number of slots at a prestigious grad program, that's when then cutthroats start to emerge.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#339

Post by dragonwriter » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 9:20 PM UTC

starchild_3001 wrote: post #333

Cancelling SAT (especially subject exams) is the stupidest decision I've seen anywhere. Make access more fair? Sure. Cancel it? Plain wrong! How do I know? I'm one of those students who didn't have stellar high school grades, but I excelled in subject exams --- those subjects were genuinely interesting to me (math, science). I didn't find the rest of high school interesting, and I wasn't a nerd nerd studying anything…

> Cancelling SAT (especially subject exams) is the stupidest decision I've seen anywhere. Make access more fair? Sure. Cancel it? Plain wrong!

UC doesn’t control access to the SAT, it does control whether it uses the SAT. Not using it in its current form is the strongest influence it has to incentivize change.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#340

Post by 908B64B197 » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 9:23 PM UTC

starchild_3001 wrote: post #333

Cancelling SAT (especially subject exams) is the stupidest decision I've seen anywhere. Make access more fair? Sure. Cancel it? Plain wrong! How do I know? I'm one of those students who didn't have stellar high school grades, but I excelled in subject exams --- those subjects were genuinely interesting to me (math, science). I didn't find the rest of high school interesting, and I wasn't a nerd nerd studying anything…

> I'm not even counted as "diverse" (because I'm not black or hispanic) despite coming from a muslim family and middle eastern background. I can only select "white", though I'm not white white.

Should that even matter for admission purposes?