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Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

theatlantic.com

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Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#271

Post by iammisc »

pmoriarty wrote: post #124
walkedaway wrote: post #11

Thomas Sowell has broken this down very well over the last 50 years. https://www.hoover.org/research/affirmative-action-around-wo... https://www.commentary.org/articles/thomas-sowell-2/affirmat... And of course the Bible on the subject: https://www.amazon.com/Discrimination-Disparities-Thomas-Sow...

"The Hoover Institution, officially the Hoover Institution on War, Revolution, and Peace, is a conservative American public policy institution and research institution that promotes personal and economic liberty, free enterprise, and limited government." Not surprisingly, Sowell's article is against affirmative action. While I was reading it, I was also looking out for anything that might distinguish Sowell as one of…

I suppose the fact that he's a Stanford professor (formerly Cornell), and has written a large number of popular books.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#272

Post by flowerlad »

rejectedandsad wrote: post #247
flowerlad wrote: post #180

In most countries students apply to just 1 or 2 colleges. Because college admissions are predictable in other countries. In the US students apply to a dozen or more colleges, and each college requires custom essays. Then these applications go through "holistic reviews". In reality, because of the huge volume of applications, colleges spend 6 to 8 minutes reviewing each application, and the reviewer is often an inexpe…

It's literally the same in America. What you're seeing is the "dream hoarder class" lashing out. These are elites that seem to have nothing but contempt for normal folks like me and I'm tired of it. At my high school most people didn't apply to more than 3 schools (1 or 2 less selective state schools + 1 flagship). I only applied to 4 and only actually had a chance at the two I got into. The undergrad I graduated fro…

So your college didn't require an essay. Is that the rule or the exception in the US? Nearly all colleges require essays. Your college may not have used "holistic reviews" but nearly all colleges in the US do.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#273

Post by [deleted] »

lostcolony wrote: post #125
stale2002 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> . How did you already learn the material outside of class? Better education at home. You are basically saying if someone is more educated, that they will do better in education. Yes, that's the point. The more time and effort someone spends in their education, the better they will do in education.

No. I am explicitly pointing out that even if you learn everything taught in class 100%, and get perfect grades in it, you may not be eligible for some advanced classes. It requires outside investment. And then the advanced classes give you a leg up in terms of college admissions if GPA is a guaranteed entry point. That means the grade inflation of AP classes just serves as an indirect proxy for money, rather than a…

[deleted]

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#274

Post by rejectedandsad »

sokoloff wrote: post #260
kcatskcolbdi wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You......ask what people got on the SATs in your job interview?

One place I worked at did, by policy (D. E. Shaw & Co.). It was also the place with the densest collection of high-achieving, highly intelligent colleagues that I’ve ever experienced.

DE Shaw rejected me after I submitted my SATs (not once, but twice).

What even is the point of living if society deems people like me to be inherently inferior for life?

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#275

Post by iammisc »

settrans wrote: post #86
seriousquestion wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thomas Sowell is easily in the top 5 intellectuals alive, and yet most people are barely aware of him and his work. Why? I genuinely don't understand why he is so ignored.

Would someone who is downvote-burying these comments care to explain their distaste? Irrespective of whether you agree with Sowell's viewpoints, they are articulate and seem germane to the conversation.

The distaste is a black man who is a republican. That is all there is to it. Ask any non-white republican, and you will understand. The hate dished out towards us is on a level white republicans never see (not that they should... it's absolutely ridiculous). Accusations of 'Uncle Tom', 'race traitor', etc are common. When the various racial groups organize anywhere, and you volunteer your time with them, they silence you, get rid of you, and prevent you from speaking up elsewhere.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#276

Post by shawndrost »

In this article about the impacts of dropping the SAT, I would hope to find a coherent analysis of the impacts of that policy vs. the status quo. Unfortunately, that analysis seems internally inconsistent:

"In short, this decision will probably hurt thousands of Asian American teenagers, backfire for Black, Latino, and low-income students, and make little difference for affluent whites."

Wait a second. If this policy is going to reduce enrollment of non-white and low-income students, and make little difference for affluent whites, then which demographics will see increased enrollment?

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#277

Post by stanford_labrat »

freeopinion wrote: post #179
stanford_labrat wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My favorite example of this is a CISCO/networking class offered at my old high school. It counted as 2 classes when it came to calculating your GPA...and accordingly was supposed to take up 2 "slots" on your schedule. However it didn't and instead the 2nd slot was always after school, which nobody went to anyways. So it allowed you to fit N+1 AP classes into what would normally be a N class schedule and gave a major…

In our school district they have multiple tiers: normal classes, honor classes, AP classes, college classes. It amuses me that AP classes are weighted higher than college classes. That is, it would just amuse me if it didn't affect my children. So students can take a college class, get an A, and receive college credit. Or they can take an AP class, get an A, then take an exam that might determine whether they get col…

Sounds like my school district. Freshman were technically banned from taking AP classes (but of course, some parents spoke to the school and thus they were allowed in). And naturally the valedictorian 3 years later was one of the 4 that was able to get into an AP class freshman year.

I always felt quite vindicated when I got my class rank (8/432) even though I had a "normal" schedule. 0, 3, 6, 7 APs. I even took a free period and only had 6 classes junior year as opposed to the normal 7!

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#279

Post by FinalBriefing »

briefcomment wrote: post #228
908B64B197 wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Replacing the SAT by a "Holistic" process is a convenient way to impose a quota on some groups judged problematic. To directly quote the article: "There is only one group of students who are “overrepresented,” to use the chilling language of social engineering, at the university: Asian Americans. Twelve percent of K–12 students are Asian or Pacific Islander, compared with 34 percent of UC undergraduates. Aligning enr…

All the best colleagues I've worked with aced the SAT and/or other standardized tests. I would hate to not be able to refer to them while interviewing job candidates. Honestly, standardized test scores and some case study type questions would be sufficient to make a decision (along with 1 on 1 convos). I hope a decision like this opens a channel for smart people to get to employment without having to go to school or…

What world do you living where people share or remember their high school test scores?

I've almost never heard of anyone caring about their SAT scores since freshman/sophomore year of college. The only people who still talk about them are the people who did really well on them complaining that they didn't help get them jobs once they graduated.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#280

Post by SuoDuanDao »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #184

At this point I'm really wondering what the ostensible purpose of Universities is, as opposed to their true purpose of wealth signaling. We live in an age where university level lectures and materials are available for free. Why are we paying a ton of money to obtain a limited slot that allows us to show up at a building for the same lectures and materials? Is it personal attention? Almost certainly not, but even if…

One explanation I've heard is insurance - a degree is supposed to prevent someone from making mistakes so egregious that the person ends up in a life of poverty. As you pointed out, degrees are overwhelmingly received by people who already have some family wealth, so it's easy to sell university as the cause of those higher lifetime earnings.
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