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Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

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Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#231

Post by honkycat »

gotoeleven wrote: post #222
sjg007 wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The SAT is basically institutionalized racism. I think this has been well studied, from its origins until today. If you have the means and money you can get tutored test prep and do significantly better than you would otherwise. Next on this list will be scholarships and admissions for elite sports. Rowing and gymnastics all favor the wealthy. https://www.insidehighered.com/admissions/views/2020/08/17/h... Maybe we n…

This is a bizarre canard that people keep running with. You can prep for the SAT but it adds 20-30 points at most. So mostly you can't prep for it. You certainly can't buy a high score. College sports is a racket though for sure.

So personalized tutoring does nothing to improve your score? What an absurd suggestion.

That USED to be line line but it has since changed: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2017/05/...

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#232

Post by asimpletune »

pfisherman wrote: post #15

I think the University of Texas has one of simplest and most egalitarian admissions policies that I have seen. If you graduate in the top 10 percent of your class, then you are guaranteed admission to all state funded universities. As a Californian I find it quite ironic that many policies in “conservative” Texas (ex. university admissions, property tax, income tax) are more much more progressive than what we have in…

I went to UT and having this program in was a great experience. It allowed for a lot of variety and kids from all sorts of backgrounds, but you still had crazy smart people. If you're from the city, the school's super hard to get into. I don't know about the more suburban or rural areas. That being said, my classmates were very diverse and it was a blast. CS education was phenomenal there and I still think their approach puts them in the best of the best globally. Everything else was really nice too, can't have asked for a better experience.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#233

Post by an_opabinia »

thereare5lights wrote: post #227
an_opabinia wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one ethnic group owns the schools.

Red herring or strawman. No one asserted that In fact, the person you responded was asserting that this course of action is meant to deny access to members of certain groups because of their membership in a group, not that they are entitled to access because of their membership in a group.

The stuff the person is talking about is a bad faith argument.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#234

Post by Y_Y »

nemo44x wrote: post #109
BitwiseFool wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

University Presidents and Trustees have this bizarre fixation on rankings. I have no clue why, especially considering the fact that that composition of the top 100 is fairly stable. Rarely does a university experience a big swing, up or down. Most universities are never going to dethrone the top 20, no matter how hard they try. And it's not like they are in desperate need for enrollment either.

Because we put MBA’s in leadership positions of universities so they do what they’ve been trained to do - run a business. And part of that is finding metrics to measure their success by.

Someone should give those guys an old-school CRPG to provide an outlet for this make-the-number-go-up fixation.

The metric that can be measured is not the eternal metric. The result that can be result-driven is not the eternal result.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#236

Post by dataflow »

BitwiseFool wrote: post #99
ethbr0 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> reducing its rank Do universities exist for students? Or do students exist for universities? I'm sure university administration believe the latter, but given that they're supported by the state (in UT's case, ~25% of their budget?) there's a pretty strong argument that they owe the people of the state education.

University Presidents and Trustees have this bizarre fixation on rankings. I have no clue why, especially considering the fact that that composition of the top 100 is fairly stable. Rarely does a university experience a big swing, up or down. Most universities are never going to dethrone the top 20, no matter how hard they try. And it's not like they are in desperate need for enrollment either.

When people hear about a university they don't know about, they often get their initial impressions from the rankings. I imagine universities that fail that test can end up being filtered out very early on in the process. For some people anything top 20 is great, but I think even the top universities don't want to be written off by the best candidates because they were #11 instead of #10.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#237

Post by [deleted] »

fridif wrote: post #192

Don't understand the hate for the SAT. Where I went to school, students would just beg their teachers for better grades and it literally worked. I did average on my SAT compared to my ex-gf in college (top 30 US school) but I ran a 3.8 in college compared to her being a C student. Doesn't matter anyway because none of the stuff I learned in college is used in my daily job as a java developer.

[deleted]

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#238

Post by endisneigh »

fridif wrote: post #192

Don't understand the hate for the SAT. Where I went to school, students would just beg their teachers for better grades and it literally worked. I did average on my SAT compared to my ex-gf in college (top 30 US school) but I ran a 3.8 in college compared to her being a C student. Doesn't matter anyway because none of the stuff I learned in college is used in my daily job as a java developer.

I don't understand this comment lol.

You say you don't understand the hate for SAT, but then proceed with an example of how you did better than your ex-gf in college despite doing presumably worse on the SAT then her?

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#239

Post by jacobolus »

jeffbee wrote: post #219
jacobolus wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because on average the children of urban/suburban professionals have more academic support, higher expectations placed on them, and more competition, and as a result end up with more academic practice/preparation, compared to rural or working-class children.

You're saying it would be easier if you imported the support and expectations with you? Otherwise I still don't get it. If rural school students as a class are poorly supported and have low expectations, and you are a member of that class, I don't see where your advantage arises.

The same amount of effort spent on academic pursuits (or the same amount of external support) will get you further on a local–relative scale in a less competitive environment. Even the 75th %ile students at many schools filled with children of upper-middle-class professionals work insanely hard. But sure, being one of the few academic strivers in a less competitive school has its own challenges.

I think making the system more equitable by supporting kids from all backgrounds is socially beneficial, even if it sometimes makes suburbanites complain.

Re: Why is the university of California dropping the SAT?

#240

Post by rejectedandsad »

Causality1 wrote: post #74

Aligning enrollment with state demographics would require cutting the share of those students by almost two-thirds. My best friend growing up was Korean. I saw firsthand the amount of effort he put into his studies. Why should we allow any institution to invalidate his work because our culture produces lazier, dumber students? Why should we artificially prop up patterns of thought and behavior that have negative effe…

I worked really hard in high school and got basically nothing for it (went to an average college, and now have an average job). My message to your friend would be "tough".
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