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The Framework Laptop is now shipping

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Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#661

Post by codedokode »

shurikdima wrote: post #658
codedokode wrote: post #653

It must be a lot of work to design a laptop. The PCBs look very complicated and the components are tiny. What I don't really like is the price. I think a good laptop should cost somewhere around $400. It is not necessary to install the most expensive CPUs because they usually have lower performance to cost ratio than cheaper models. Webcam, fingerprint reader and Wifi 6 are not necessary. The laptop doesn't have spac…

As someone who lives in Russia, by the end of your second paragraph I was thinking to myself "This guy must be Russian". and I was right. I swear, Russians bitch about everything. no matter how good something is, some Russian will find something to complain about.

Yes, but I tried also to be useful and suggested the ideas for improving the keyboard.

Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#662

Post by WesolyKubeczek »

littlestymaar wrote: post #467
ddalex wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The chocolate bar doesn't start a violent fire if pierced. If it would we could power our laptops with chocolate :) The flour conditions of exploding are far more difficult to achieve than a LiIon battery conditions - orders of magnitude difference.

> The chocolate bar doesn't start a violent fire if pierced. If it would we could power our laptops with chocolate :) Neither does a NiMH battery. There's no link between vulnerability to external damage and ability to power a laptop. In fact, there's no fundamental reason why we couldn't run our laptop on chocolate[1], just that it's very far away from current technology. [1]: http://large.stanford.edu/courses/2014/…

It’s just that modern laptops run on Li-ion batteries.

Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#663

Post by codedokode »

formerly_proven wrote: post #631
ribit wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The beauty and success of DIMM modules is that they are a simple slide-in to install technology. It's easy to operate, cheap, robust, and it is very space efficient. Imagine RAM modules in an LGA socket instead... how much space would it require? How robust would it be? What will be the price? I am quite sure all of these issues can be solved, but is it worth it? Let's be honest, users who are interested in having up…

The practical interest might be close to zero because in the past memory upgrades a number of years down the road were one of the most common upgrades and added tremendous value and another few years of life. Similarly many older laptops got a second life by being upgraded to SSDs. Accidents like that, which prevent sales of new units, can't happen if storage and memory are soldered on. I don't think this is the driv…

Also even when RAM was replaceable, many manufacturers put low limits on its size, I guess for the same purpose.

Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#664

Post by eropple »

jackcviers3 wrote: post #496
ribit wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In what universe is that normal? In a universe where you want high-performance energy efficient RAM. Premium ultracompact laptops have long moved to LPDDR which is both faster and consumes significantly less energy than regular modular DDR. And LPDDR does not come in DIMMs. And then you have Apple who are using custom package technology with custom RAM chips to cut down RAM power consumption to under one watt activ…

1 watt active is low. But so is 2 for dimm ddr3 [1]. They switched to make upgrading more difficult. "Typical Power Consumption of PC Components - Power Draw in Watts" https://www.buildcomputers.net/power-consumption-of-pc-compo...

You've repeated this in a few places in this thread with this same sort of conspiratorial air, but when you are talking about south of 10W total consumption (sometimes south of 6W!), a watt is a very significant amount and has a very large impact on overall battery life.

Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#665

Post by nrp »

heywherelogingo wrote: post #456
sydd wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its great, but I really don't understand why they cannot ship outside like 2 countries (?). Its always such a let down to see a company in 2021 that doesn't offer worldwide shipping, and sells its products just in the usual 2-3 countries (USA, Canada, maybe UK). At least give some FAQ with reasons or ETA when you will be shipping outside the US

Have to manufacture different keyboard layouts for one. That layout in the pics looks unpleasant to my UK eyes.

We have an ISO layout for UK English and other languages tooled and in testing. There are an enormous number of hurdles to shipping in each new country, across currency, language, customs, fulfillment, support, certifications, compliance, taxes, duties, business registrations, and more. We're working through them as we go, but as a startup we had to focus and pick a couple of countries to launch in first (the US and Canada).

Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#666

Post by michaelmrose »

ribit wrote: post #417
nspattak wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you please point us to some technical report or something where they document the energy saving of moving from dimm slots to soldered ram/ssd ?

By the way, check out reviews of the Framework Laptop for a first-hand illustration of this effect. They seem to be getting 40-50% lower battery runtimes than laptops with comparable specs. That's example the problem — of you design for modularity, you have to leave some optimizations on the table.

That doesn't in any way tease out the effects of sockets it seems impossible that that doubles power usage.

Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#667

Post by swalsh »

okamiueru wrote: post #564
swalsh wrote: post #445

Super disapointed. Just a few weeeks ago I bought a macbook pro with an M1 from Apple, it's kind of the default choice at the moment. I love the concept of this laptop so much though. If it was available when I was making my choice, I would have seriously considered it as an option.

I would think apple products are the antithesis to the Framework laptop. How can you go from the M1 being "the default choice", and being disappointed that this wasn't a possibility? Wouldn't there have been a myriad of other choices closer to the Framework laptop, than the M1?

It's a love/hate relationship. I hate the closed nature of Apple, but it's a superior build quality.

This laptop looks like it offers both.

Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#668

Post by goodpoint »

drstewart wrote: post #548
cconcepts wrote: post #280

I hope you guys slay the market and are able to keep up with the demand that is coming at you. I hope this is the Tesla moment for the consumer electronics industry where the incumbents are forced, through the hubris yet popularity of an upstart, to start innovating again and doing what is good for humanity rather than peddling incrementally changed products each year that are designed to become obsolete within an ev…

The reality is that this will be a niche product that gets almost no mainstream adoption outside of a small tech bubble, like the Fairphone.

A "Tesla moment" might well represent adoption of an expensive gadget in a small tech bubble.

Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping

#669

Post by emteycz »

PicassoCTs wrote: post #654
ribit wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LPDDR is low power because it is a more sophisticated device with more complex protocol compared to regular DDR, because it has a higher pinout allowing it to have a more efficient electrical connection and because the computer manufacturer can optimize the connection with specific chips in mind instead of having to support a wide range of devices. I think the number of pins is a practical limitation. Current DDR DIM…

We have cpus with lots of pins, nobody is stopping ram from switching to a cpu socket layout..

Laptop CPU is onboard for the same reasons RAM is. This is not about the amount of pins, it's about power requirements for signal clarity.
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