One of the pics on the product page indicates that this may be able to be opened to lay flat, but I don't see a definitive spec regarding how far it opens. Anyone know if this is the case?
The Framework Laptop is now shipping
621–630 of 785 posts
Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping
#622Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why is it that you can't have this with socketed RAM? Is there a physical limitation?
As far as I understand, a number of things make a difference: - Socketed RAM is limited by the number of pins, DDR SO-DIMM for example has 2-3x fewer pins than your average LPDDR4X module. Having more pins helps running the chips on lower power as it was explained to me by an engineer (something to do with grounding and lower voltage, I am not really sure how it works but I trust the guy) - Socketed RAM is a least co…
RAM could be packed together with a CPU on a replaceable board.
Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping
#623I hope you guys slay the market and are able to keep up with the demand that is coming at you. I hope this is the Tesla moment for the consumer electronics industry where the incumbents are forced, through the hubris yet popularity of an upstart, to start innovating again and doing what is good for humanity rather than peddling incrementally changed products each year that are designed to become obsolete within an ev…
The reality is that this will be a niche product that gets almost no mainstream adoption outside of a small tech bubble, like the Fairphone.
No, it very well could become a popular product.
Repairability won’t be enough to get it there. But whatever company culture forms around this repairability thing could lead them to design a killer feature that Apple and Microsoft would never think of.
And repairability might be a moat for some feature like that.
It’s not inevitable, most new electronics companies don’t hit it big. But don’t write them off before they start!
They’re in the right place: they pulled together a group of contributors with a different way of thinking, a product is on the market, getting good reviews, and a cult following is behind them. That’s exactly where new big ideas come from. Give them a chance to seek it out.
Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping
#624I hope you guys slay the market and are able to keep up with the demand that is coming at you. I hope this is the Tesla moment for the consumer electronics industry where the incumbents are forced, through the hubris yet popularity of an upstart, to start innovating again and doing what is good for humanity rather than peddling incrementally changed products each year that are designed to become obsolete within an ev…
Well, I am not an Apple devotee, and I think that what you say is generally right. But Apple releasing M1 laptops kind of changed the game...
I think low compute is actually a pretty interesting niche. By throwing all that compute at people, Apple all but guarantees the quality of software (VSCode extensions, web sites, etc) will be garbage.
I think the next major OS innovation will come from a company focused on architecture, design, and software efficiency over computing resources and device size.
Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping
#625Earlier quoted context omitted.
If I am not mistaken the ports on recent Apple machines are on a separate, easily replaceable board.
Doesn’t appear to be the case on the 16” MBP: https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/MacBook+Pro+16-Inch+2019+Tea...
Looking at this photo from that page it appears that they are: https://guide-images.cdn.ifixit.com/igi/uavG2A3vFrVmwv6J.hug...
You can see the ports still in place after the motherboard has been removed.
Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping
#626This looks great. My only comment is whether the population for whom this is interesting wouldn't be more likely to want Linux? I suspect the focus on Windows is misplaced.
I might get one, but I'd want 100% Linux support, notably wrt. power management.
EDIT: language
Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping
#627Earlier quoted context omitted.
Realistically 99% of the corporate and consumer laptops I have been party to are built to order with the right amount of RAM in and never upgraded. Those of us who actually upgrade are an insignificant minority at this point or pulling them out of the ex corp recycling lifecycle. Another point is stuff that is soldered in is a lot more reliable as a whole. Amazing how many old machines can be resurrected by reseating…
The Framework's ports are all on user-selectable, replaceable expansion modules. If one of the USB-C ports dies, you just unplug it and install a new one.
What you're missing is that these ports are actually USB C dongles. If one of the _original_ USB C ports dies, it's dead. Ie the hot swap ports basically connect to USB C ports built into the machine. It's a clever UX hack (which I'm totally for), but it's not solving the technical issue here.
For transparency I actually love the idea behind the Framework laptop, I've been hyped since January!
Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping
#628Earlier quoted context omitted.
So just...put LPDDR on a DIMM? Or some other kind of removable slot?? I see no technical reason you couldn't. Or, instead of soldering chips, make little LGA slots for the individual chips. I can't imagine the tiny added resistance from an extra millimeter of wire and pin surface contact would impact much of anything and even if it does, I'd rather take that than have no options when the next Windows update makes my…
The reason is signal integrity. Running a high speed signal (never mind a bus of 64+ of them) through a connector is hard and takes a lot of power because the connector can seriously degrade the signals. LPDDR can be low power because it doesn't have a "memory stick" abstraction, just memory chips and controllers. It's not the resistance that kills the signal, it's the inductance and the impedance mismatching.
LPDDR3 DIMMs exist. I assume everyone is talking about LPDDR4, which seems to use 0.1V less.
But the majority of people couldn't give a toss about how much of their laptop ends up in a landfill. They're using paper/glass straws, you see.
Perhaps electronics landfills should be local again.
Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping
#629This device is seriously the answer to all my laptop problems. I really like the form factor of the XPS 13, but now I'm stuck with the complete inability to upgrade RAM. In what universe is that normal? Then I accidentally nuked the USB-C ports on the left side when it got wet, and now I'm left with a single port for everything, including charging. What!? Why? I tore the entire thing apart and there's just no way to…
I am also very excited about this, but the Verge review says the build quality isn't great. We'll see I guess.
I just hope that they release the next gen motherboard when it launches. Intel 12th gen, DDR5 RAM. I'm waiting for that big generational jump before making a purchase, and I really hope I can get a Framework.
Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping
#630Earlier quoted context omitted.
I imagine you may have some difficulty getting the pins to make contact if they’re too small.
Modern CPUs are an order of magnitude more complex and usually built on a smaller process, yet we have no trouble putting them on intermediary PCBs to spread out contacts and allow larger pins. I see no reason we couldn't make LGA sockets for DRAM chips in the same way.
Yeah... sadly CPUs in laptops have been soldered for a while now.
The same CPUs that have a socket equivalent for desktops. It's a travesty.