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It doesn't take much public creativity to stand out as a job candidate

simonwillison.net

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Re: It doesn't take much public creativity to stand out as a job candidate

#311

Post by MaKey »

MillenialMan wrote: post #265
z3t4 wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are over qualified, like having published several games on your own, it's not like they don't think you can do they job, they might think you will get bored and miserable.

Do people really pass on candidates that often because they're too impressive? Overqualification in general seems like the kind of spectre that I just can't see translating to the real world.

I was passed on because I was overqualified for a position. I'm thankful for that because I found a much better fitting position a few months later.

Re: It doesn't take much public creativity to stand out as a job candidate

#312

Post by LadyCailin »

xyzzy_plugh wrote: post #299
throwawaylinux wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To play devil's advocate, having a standardized process for all candidates has some benefits. I've witnessed otherwise stellar candidates with amazing open source contributions absolutely bomb coding interviews. Real "write a function that does X" in whatever language you're comfortable with and whatever tools or resources you want. Simple stuff. I'm not sure if you're playing devil's advocate very well here, becau…

> I'm not sure if you're playing devil's advocate very well here, because this suggests to me that the interview process did not work well. Do you want to hire someone who can write a binary tree insertion in 30 minutes, or someone who can make amazing contributions to real software projects? Most companies want malleable, fungible engineers. Most companies are not stable, something is usually in flux -- projects, te…

> One in a hundred applicants even get interviews

If you don’t bother to read the CV, who do you even pick to interview? Randomly?

Re: It doesn't take much public creativity to stand out as a job candidate

#313

Post by alfiedotwtf »

jjeaff wrote: post #294
xyzzy_plugh wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To play devil's advocate, having a standardized process for all candidates has some benefits. I've witnessed otherwise stellar candidates with amazing open source contributions absolutely bomb coding interviews. Real "write a function that does X" in whatever language you're comfortable with and whatever tools or resources you want. Simple stuff. So yeah maybe the Big O stuff is lame, but sometimes it's also a filter…

So they are stellar candidates with amazing contributions. Yet they can't do your whiteboard questions. So, are you trying to hire someone who will make stellar contributions to your codebase or are you looking for candidates who are good at answering dumb questions?

umm... because manholes are round, and about 500,000 golf balls.

Re: It doesn't take much public creativity to stand out as a job candidate

#314

Post by Vvector »

adamors wrote: post #197
otabdeveloper4 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if I forgot how to write binary search The binary search algorithm isn't something you can "forget". For a literate programmer it's like forgetting how to write the letter 'A' or forgetting which pedal is the gas and which is the brakes.

This comment is nonsense. Nobody is writing binary searches in their day-to-day jobs, and if they do it's once in a blue moon, not every day. You're using pedals every time you drive.

> Nobody is writing binary searches in their day-to-day jobs

But in an interview situation, they cannot give you a three week task. Like FizzBuzz, a binary search is a simple task that can be done during an interview. They are not testing your ability to write a binary search. They are testing you on your ability to implement a function, given specific requirements.

Re: It doesn't take much public creativity to stand out as a job candidate

#315

Post by arethuza »

codeOnMaster wrote: post #306
arethuza wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A couple of years back I managed to have three job offers at the same time - all of which I turned down. One recruiter got really angry with me, one basically disappeared the moment they heard I wasn't immediately accepting their offer and the third had a sensible and mature conversation about it. Guess which one gave me a good impression of their company and who I might work with again?

I'm curious why you put in the effort to apply to several places and passed up on all the offers.

They approached me, I had interviews with each one thought about it and and on reflection once I found out more about each company and the roles decided I was better off staying where I was at the time. At the time the company I was working for had some commercial trouble (not related to me) so I thought it was wise to be informed about what opportunities were available but I wasn't desperate.

Since moved somewhere else and am very happy with my new role.

Re: It doesn't take much public creativity to stand out as a job candidate

#316

Post by Vvector »

sedeki wrote: post #174
otabdeveloper4 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if I forgot how to write binary search The binary search algorithm isn't something you can "forget". For a literate programmer it's like forgetting how to write the letter 'A' or forgetting which pedal is the gas and which is the brakes.

I think the overall point is the risk of forgetting something judged as "fundamental."

Can you clarify what you mean here? I would argue that any decent programmer could hack out a sorting routine, without having the code memorized.

If you cannot write a binary search routine from scratch, how can you be expected to solve much bigger problems?

Re: It doesn't take much public creativity to stand out as a job candidate

#317

Post by throwaway2727 »

I agree with this - if you're a student or just starting in the workforce. However, a lot of companies in the industry have IP agreements that prevent you from sharing code in public - and there have been cases where companies have told employees to stop work on their personal projects/stop contributing to open source because of this. Some even restrict public comments to social media or participation in online discussions.

Now a lot of people, including me, have a Github and contribute to open-source using a anonymous screen name. However that also means that prospective employers can't use this to find me, and that I can't really mention these projects in a job interview.

I'm just surprised that no one has mentioned this here, as I've seen quite fruitful discussion on HN before on such agreements and am surprised this hasn't came up. I know some employers that would definitely tell you to cease work on your (publicly visible) Github projects once you are hired if you mentioned them in your interview.

Re: It doesn't take much public creativity to stand out as a job candidate

#318

Post by gopher_space »

xyzzy_plugh wrote: post #296
jjeaff wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So they are stellar candidates with amazing contributions. Yet they can't do your whiteboard questions. So, are you trying to hire someone who will make stellar contributions to your codebase or are you looking for candidates who are good at answering dumb questions?

I don't typically whiteboard. I'll write the prompt on the whiteboard, but otherwise it's a tool. The candidate has a computer, either their own or we provide one, with whatever tools they requested or want to use. Yes, plenty of candidates with otherwise amazing track records can't code comically simple functions (not dumb questions) together, with tons of help and hints and direction provided. They can't articulate…

Think about what your interview process would look like if it was a normal day at work.

You show up out of the blue with a task that isn't connected to anything the org does and with all the decisions made already. I cannot search the internet, but you do not explain why. You sit down across from me and stare.

Re: It doesn't take much public creativity to stand out as a job candidate

#319

Post by colonelpopcorn »

jjeaff wrote: post #294
xyzzy_plugh wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To play devil's advocate, having a standardized process for all candidates has some benefits. I've witnessed otherwise stellar candidates with amazing open source contributions absolutely bomb coding interviews. Real "write a function that does X" in whatever language you're comfortable with and whatever tools or resources you want. Simple stuff. So yeah maybe the Big O stuff is lame, but sometimes it's also a filter…

So they are stellar candidates with amazing contributions. Yet they can't do your whiteboard questions. So, are you trying to hire someone who will make stellar contributions to your codebase or are you looking for candidates who are good at answering dumb questions?

It filters out those who know how to structure code, but don't know how to write it. Stack overflow copy and paste can still create public projects.

Re: It doesn't take much public creativity to stand out as a job candidate

#320

Post by AlwaysRock »

k__ wrote: post #210
AlwaysRock wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This really depends. Are you talking about FANG+ type companies? Doesnt matter who you are you will probably have to whiteboard. Outside of FANG? I'm sure you can bypass many technicals with credentials.

I'm not talking about big companies. I'm not that famous. But I think, if a person above VP level wants you at Facebook, an assesment center isn't an issue.

That's actually not really true. You still have to interview. A referral or being recruited directly isnt a free pass. You'll probably get some additional prep but the person recruiting you cant just say let's make this person an offer.
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