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SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

wwwnc.cdc.gov

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Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#231

Post by effie »

ben_w wrote: post #225
effie wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you want to wear a seatbelt if it also injected you with a novel gene therapy vaccine, which is basically a russian-roulette with rare harmful health effects and your family can't sue the state nor the pharma?

Would you rather play Russian roulette with one live round somewhere in 200,000 chambers, or one round in 100 chambers? You don’t get to opt out and attempting to do so gets you the 100 chambers. Neither you nor your family get to sue anyone in either case. If you opt for 100 either directly or by failing to make a choice fast enough, anyone around you who hasn’t faced the 200,000 yet — even if they wanted to — faces…

You can't compare getting vaccinated with getting bad COVID in this way. Getting vaccine is like a Russian roulette, because you do not know whether you are in the group of poor people who get maimed or killed by it. But not getting a vaccine is not like going to meet all people in town and hoping for the best. There are alternative strategies that reduce your risk of getting COVID and risk of severe health results from COVID immensely, for some people even below that of vaccine.

In other words, I have lots of information to help me efficiently avoid bad COVID impact; but I have no information to help me efficiently prevent bad vaccine impact.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#232

Post by effie »

lmilcin wrote: post #220
effie wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> countries that practically eradicated the virus instantly after vaccination (like Israel) Source for this absurd claim?

It is not an absurd claim. The statistics are available to everybody. Israel implemented vaccinations efficiently and very quickly their infection rates dropped close to zero. I live in Poland and same thing happened here. Now the infection rates grow again because the current vaccination rate and vaccine themselves are not enough to protect.

It is an absurd claim. Just because reported rate of infections went down for a while, it does not mean that virus was eradicated.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#233

Post by kumarvvr »

rolleiflex wrote: post #147
kumarvvr wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whoa, I sometimes get SpO2 around 91 - 94 and I chalk it up to calibration error on cheap SpO2 devices (The ones that clip on to the hand, cost about 20 USD). Have been tested twice per employer requirements and was never positive though.

The cheap SPO2 devices are calibrated on fair skin. If you have a darker complexion there is a known measurement error. If you are at 91% and feeling fine you are probably fine. Your body has a better SPO2 sensor than anything man-made.

Damn, I am brown and I guess I have to take that as a 3 - 5% error?

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#234

Post by sampo »

Izkata wrote: post #93
criticaltinker wrote: post #84

As other commenters have noted, this case study further supports the widespread observations that COVID-19 vaccines reduce the chance of severe (symptomatic) illness but do not necessarily prevent infection and transmission. The authors of this study conjecture that the unvaccinated asymptomatic “patient 40” may have been the source of the infections seen in the other fully vaccinated patients - however this was a mi…

> One counterpoint that I’ve come across during my own review of the literature, is the idea that imperfect vaccines can cause selective pressure which enhances the fitness of highly virulent pathogens. This is what happened with "Marek's disease", a virus-caused disease in chickens. The vaccine was "leaky" and ended up selecting for a more deadly form, such that now all chickens worldwide have to be vaccinated for i…

> This is what happened with "Marek's disease"

Marek's disease in chicken is what the PLOS article is about: MDV = Marek's disease virus.

> The vaccine was "leaky" and ended up selecting for a more deadly form

The researchers of the PLOS article do not claim to know that for certain:

"Our data do not demonstrate that vaccination was responsible for the evolution of hyperpathogenic strains of MDV, and we may never know for sure why they evolved in the first place."

But this they claim:

"But whatever was responsible for the evolution of more virulent strains in the first place (and there may be many causes), our data show that vaccination is sufficient to maintain hyperpathogenic strains in poultry flocks today."

https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/jou...

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#235

Post by nikolay »

samus wrote: post #208
nikolay wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point is that many restrictions are removed for fully-vaccinated people, i.e. the exposure of these people will increase, i.e. the chance of getting the infection, even if it doesn't take you to the hospital, greatly increases. Even if it's a small percentage, this means many people will get lasting damage. To me, vaccination status should not mean you can take your face mask off - first, you can still get stick,…

It's of course not ideal that restrictions are unduly waived. But it is also recognized that many won't consider taking the vaccine because they don't see how doing so contributes to end the pandemy. Luring them with incentives like entry to bars without testing, or positive monetary rewards, changes the decision making process though. But many places maintain restrictions like mask wearing or mandatory testing for a…

Vaccination is too slow anyway. You need to vaccinate the entire world at once otherwise the reservoirs outside of the first world will keep the variant roulette spinning and more dangerous variants will nullify the first generation of vaccines and we'll back to where we started. Just today here on HN was a post about gamma variant escaping fully-vaccinated with Pfizer. And this is not even considering that we're about to see immunization protection starting to expire for some people - I doubt it's for life unless you're constantly exposed to the virus, which probably makes sense to stop wearing a mask... unless getting multiple infections to relaunch the antibodies is not doing unforeseen damage.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#236

Post by Grimm1 »

thirsty-dove wrote: post #188
deathcakes wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry but no it is selfish - that is the definition of selfish. 'It won't benefit me; it will benefit the whole of society but I don't give a shit about them so I'm not going to' is the most selfish viewpoint you can have. I could understand if there was a significant risk of negative consequences to the individual but there aren't.

> that is the definition of selfish You're assuming you possess godlike knowledge, when actually we can't be sure what actions will lead to beneficial or harmful results. Are you selfish for refusing to undergo castration? What if I'm really sure it would benefit society? This is one of the many reasons we consider people sovereign over their own bodies. > I could understand if there was a significant risk of negativ…

Hundreds of millions have been vaccinated, there are like double digit cases of issues (per million)

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/ad...

Your risk index is poor.

Like conversely, your chance of getting hit by a car is 1 in 5000, so I guess you shouldn't ever leave your house again.

https://www.reference.com/world-view/odds-getting-hit-car-81....

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#237

Post by seventytwo »

jstanley wrote: post #164
seventytwo wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

… and 99% of cases in the US are among the unvaccinated. What’s your point?

But the US methodology of deciding whether you have COVID is much more strict if you've been vaccinated - this just fudges the numbers to make it look like vaccines work much better than they really do.

Fair, but infections is only a proxy measurement for the actual outcome we are trying to avoid: hospitalizations and death.

The fact remains that hospitalizations and deaths are basically only occurring among the unvaccinated.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#238

Post by sampo »

native_samples wrote: post #184
vampirical wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your claims are pretty extraordinary and demand extraordinary evidence. How exactly are they not adequate? How are they being treated as if they aren't working? How are they dangerous? The one source you provide is embarrassingly poorly founded. It takes garbage input sources, obscures even the meager data in them and then decreases the quality of the claims even further with misleading representations. Here's just o…

Paragraphs would help me work through your questions. Firstly, the claims aren't extraordinary. There is a long history of vaccines being suspended for being more dangerous than is worth it, for example here's a CNN archival story about that: https://edition.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/04/30/swine.flu.1976/ind... "ATLANTA, Georgia (CNN) -- The man who led the response to the 1976 swine flu outbreak is defending the vaccinati…

> In 2010 there was another Swine Flu scare but not much was learned: Pandemrix was authorized and sold in Europe but turned out to occasionally create narcolepsy in teenagers.

A protein in the Swine Fly virus triggered narcolepsy in some people. You can get exposed to this protein both from the Pandemrix vaccine, and from getting sick from Swine Flu. China didn't vaccinate, but there was a spike in narcolepsy cases in China, from people who were infected by the virus.

https://stm.sciencemag.org/content/7/294/294ra105

https://www.pnas.org/content/113/3/E368.short

https://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/23/health/23global.html

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/ana.22587

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#239

Post by failwhaleshark »

criticaltinker wrote: post #84

As other commenters have noted, this case study further supports the widespread observations that COVID-19 vaccines reduce the chance of severe (symptomatic) illness but do not necessarily prevent infection and transmission. The authors of this study conjecture that the unvaccinated asymptomatic “patient 40” may have been the source of the infections seen in the other fully vaccinated patients - however this was a mi…

The reality is antivaxxers and nomaskers are to blame for the entire pandemic, its continuation, and subsequent variant evolution. Contributing factors are lifting restrictions too early, lack of enforcement in underdeveloped and developed countries, and lack of compulsory vaccination. If such measures were taken, the R number would be much less than 1. If gamma circulates worldwide, it might as well be SARS-CoV-3.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#240

Post by JeremyNT »

dopylitty wrote: post #5
dgant wrote: post #3

"No clinically severe COVID-19 (1) was observed, and no patient was hospitalized" In other words, this case study is a relatively ordinary result in line with what we know: that the major COVID-19 vaccines greatly reduce the chance of severe illness but leave nontrivial chance of infection and transmission.

It’s worth noting that the bar for severe illness is set incredibly high. [1] All of the major symptoms including high fever, cough, severe fatigue, loss of taste/smell, and shortness of breath still count as mild under their definition. This is very much a disease you don’t want to get, even the so called mild version that happens in vaccinated people. 1. https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/overview/clin.…

i.e., it's like the common cold +/- a bit. Also keep in mind that many people are mostly asymptomatic entirely, even the unvaccinated.

Sure, try not to get sick. Understand that there is some risk of symptoms. But getting COVID once you've had the vaccine shouldn't really be a concern worthy of altering any behaviors to avoid for healthy people.

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