Godspeed to framework! When you have a linux version I'll buy one.
The Framework Laptop is now shipping
461–470 of 785 posts
Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping
#462Earlier quoted context omitted.
The approach Qualcomm has taken in their flagship ARM processors is probably correct for laptops as well as phones. There are four low-power single thread cores. They do grunt work at high efficiency but low capability. There are three medium-power single thread cores. They suck up more electricity when in use but can get tasks that the user cares about accomplished, and sleep all the time that the phone is not runni…
There are somewhat reliable rumors that intel are doing exactly this big.LITTLE config in the near future. [0] https://wccftech.com/intels-alder-lake-platform-will-introdu...
It isn't a rumor. Intel announced it at CES.
https://www.techradar.com/news/intel-teases-alder-lake-cpus-...
Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping
#463Earlier quoted context omitted.
> In a universe where you want high-performance energy efficient RAM [.....] You simply can’t have this with socketed RAM. You make it sound like a prerequisite. I'm pretty sure the reason LPDDR is Low Power is not due to (currently) being unavailable in socketed modules - that would seem to be a side-effect of the original target market (smart phones). They are just some BGA packages, I see no reason they couldn't b…
LPDDR is low power because it is a more sophisticated device with more complex protocol compared to regular DDR, because it has a higher pinout allowing it to have a more efficient electrical connection and because the computer manufacturer can optimize the connection with specific chips in mind instead of having to support a wide range of devices. I think the number of pins is a practical limitation. Current DDR DIM…
It is if it's a standard that everyone decides to support...
Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping
#464Earlier quoted context omitted.
Way overstating your case. PC's might be on the decline but they are still far far from being a "rounding error for the semiconductor industry". Laptops also make up a major component of that still very alive market so no, I disagree that there is not enough market demand for having laptops that can be repaired or upgraded. It's the industry themselves that have worked to hamper the right of repair while giving nebul…
Modern laptop motherboards can easily be about the size of a cell phone. Most of the case is battery and the main board is a shrinking percentage of the BOM cost. The entire motherboard is the replaceable component. It’s less “right to repair” than the additional components and design required to make them repairable are more expensive than just replacing the whole board.
Seems like a deliberate design choice, not some inevitable consequence of modernity. Why exactly does the board need to be cell phone sized when the actual form factor of even a netbook is substantially larger?
Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping
#465Earlier quoted context omitted.
The Framework's ports are all on user-selectable, replaceable expansion modules. If one of the USB-C ports dies, you just unplug it and install a new one.
The expansion modules themselves are USB C dongles designed to fit flush in the case If the internal USB C ports get damaged, presumably the device can be opened and repaired.
They mention that several other such ports like the audio and power are easily replaceable so that seems a fair assumption. The modules are also track-mounted and appear to lock into place somehow, so it seems unlikely that the internal connection will suffer the same kind of torture an external port would.
Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping
#466Submitted this yesterday, didn't get much traction though. Gizmodo's review was mixed. https://gizmodo.com/i-wanted-to-love-framework-s-modular-lap...
This review sounds overly negative. I don't have much interest in either party but it mentions the laptop got to 106f and said "too hot to touch". Well, that's only 41c. If 41c was too hot to touch, some fevers would burn your skin.
Then it mentions that the fn keys area was at 96f. That's body temp. A phone taken out of a pocket will probably be around the same temp and we are not complaining it's too hot.
Little details like that make me think they had some kind of negative bias towards the device and it is not clear why.
I am not defending the device since I haven't used it, but that review reads like "yeah whatever I guess I'll review it, but if it's not perfect I'll trash it".
I guess we'll have to wait for these first batches to go out to see what problems are actually a nuisance
Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping
#467Earlier quoted context omitted.
A chocolate tablet typically stores 4000kJ of energy. Yes that's 15 hand grenades, what are we waiting for: ban chocolate tablets now! And don't get me started on flour, not only it stores a ton of energy (50 grenades per kg) but it's also highly explosive! [1] [1]: (only with the right air to flour ratio of course, but accident happen every once in a while: https://www.grupa-wolff.com/a-tragic-flour-explosion/ )
The chocolate bar doesn't start a violent fire if pierced. If it would we could power our laptops with chocolate :) The flour conditions of exploding are far more difficult to achieve than a LiIon battery conditions - orders of magnitude difference.
> The chocolate bar doesn't start a violent fire if pierced. If it would we could power our laptops with chocolate :)
Neither does a NiMH battery. There's no link between vulnerability to external damage and ability to power a laptop.
In fact, there's no fundamental reason why we couldn't run our laptop on chocolate[1], just that it's very far away from current technology.
Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping
#468Earlier quoted context omitted.
> In what universe is that normal? In a universe where you want high-performance energy efficient RAM. Premium ultracompact laptops have long moved to LPDDR which is both faster and consumes significantly less energy than regular modular DDR. And LPDDR does not come in DIMMs. And then you have Apple who are using custom package technology with custom RAM chips to cut down RAM power consumption to under one watt activ…
> In a universe where you want high-performance energy efficient RAM [.....] You simply can’t have this with socketed RAM. You make it sound like a prerequisite. I'm pretty sure the reason LPDDR is Low Power is not due to (currently) being unavailable in socketed modules - that would seem to be a side-effect of the original target market (smart phones). They are just some BGA packages, I see no reason they couldn't b…
I've never done anything beyond amateur electronics, so sorry if I'm way off base here, but it at least seems intuitively plausible to me that soldering the components to the board allows them to work reliably at lower power. With a pin and socket connection, you've got to try and be at least reasonably resistant to corrosion or other sources of less-than-perfect connection.
That said, I don't know that RAM chips are the hill I want to die on, anyway. Could we get to a better place if we dispensed with the whole, "just the one big motherboard," design, and looked to the old backplane-style physical layouts? Then you could have a module that contains the CPU and RAM and suchlike all in a single package, and move other things that may not want to be quite as tightly integrated off to another package.
Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping
#469Submitted this yesterday, didn't get much traction though. Gizmodo's review was mixed. https://gizmodo.com/i-wanted-to-love-framework-s-modular-lap...
That review is indeed lukewarm, but lists not one specific gripe as to anything wrong or not working. It's really a worthless review.
I'm pretty excited about this laptop, but that review does list some specific complaints. Here's a couple lines from the conclusion of the review:
> The Framework laptop offers an awkward port selection to make way for its expansion slots, and it doesn’t have the best battery life. It’s also concerning that the computer runs so hot.
Re: The Framework Laptop is now shipping
#470Earlier quoted context omitted.
Modern laptop motherboards can easily be about the size of a cell phone. Most of the case is battery and the main board is a shrinking percentage of the BOM cost. The entire motherboard is the replaceable component. It’s less “right to repair” than the additional components and design required to make them repairable are more expensive than just replacing the whole board.
Seems like a deliberate design choice, not some inevitable consequence of modernity. Why exactly does the board need to be cell phone sized when the actual form factor of even a netbook is substantially larger?
To fit more battery. Other than my Mac mini, every computing device (including watch and phone) I own is mostly battery inside.