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SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

wwwnc.cdc.gov

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Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#131

Post by adevx »

mlang23 wrote: post #99
sschueller wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So does this mean we made this pandemic worse than the one from 1918 when we didn't have a vaccine?

This is very likely. And has already been said by various critics already months ago. But these people were silenced or ridiculed, because it apparently was already decided the vaccines need to be sold.

This has indeed been predicted by various experts but almost completely ignored. As seen in the comment below the strategy now is to blame those who are critical of our single minded vaccination strategy.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#132

Post by ben_w »

jsbdk wrote: post #121
aranw wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> imperfect vaccines can cause selective pressure which enhances the fitness of highly virulent pathogens I've wondered this ever since the UK changed it's approach and now that we've got to a state where there is pretty much no restrictions. I think scientists around the world also have this concern with the UK's approach

Why would I want to vaccinate if I'm still going to get restricted? I mean the whole deal here was that if we got vaccinated we'd be back to normal life. If that wasn't the case they should've been sincere up front and most of us wouldn't have gotten vaccinated.

Same reason I want to wear a seatbelt even though I’m still restricted by the speed limit: demonstrably lower chances of not merely death but also sub-fatal harm.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#133

Post by dot1x »

criticaltinker wrote: post #84

As other commenters have noted, this case study further supports the widespread observations that COVID-19 vaccines reduce the chance of severe (symptomatic) illness but do not necessarily prevent infection and transmission. The authors of this study conjecture that the unvaccinated asymptomatic “patient 40” may have been the source of the infections seen in the other fully vaccinated patients - however this was a mi…

> That being said, IMO there seems to be a growing public opinion that unvaccinated individuals are to blame for the increasing dominance of variants of concern (delta, gamma, etc).

This is no coincidence. The media has been directed to _not_ blame vaccines for ANYTHING, as doing so would negatively impact their narrative. It's well known that people vaccinated with leaky vaccines are the breeding ground for super-bugs, especially between they get their 1st and 2nd dose.

The problem? Since their immune system has been trained for only the spike protein, they will be at an immune disadvantage once the variant learns how to completely circumvent the vaccine-induced immune response (and trust me, that's where we're going with all these variants, it's no coincidence Pfizer is prepping the 3rd shot).

Once SARS-COV-2 has mutated enough to evade the current vaccine, we're going to have a resurgence of hospitalization and severe covid cases all around the world, but this time in VACCINATED people. Since their immune system has been primed by an incomplete vaccine, it will not generate multi-epitope antibodies any longer as it'll think "it got this handled" due to previous (incomplete) antibodies.

Of course, the media will blame the "unvaxxed", just as they started doing right now. More lockdowns will commence, more vaccines every few months (with compounding risks). Oh, did I mention that subsequent vaccines will be less effective the more you get vaccinated, because your body is already primed and it'll produce the antibodies from the 1st vaccines? Look into "Original Antigenic Sin" or OAS.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#134

Post by lmilcin »

criticaltinker wrote: post #84

As other commenters have noted, this case study further supports the widespread observations that COVID-19 vaccines reduce the chance of severe (symptomatic) illness but do not necessarily prevent infection and transmission. The authors of this study conjecture that the unvaccinated asymptomatic “patient 40” may have been the source of the infections seen in the other fully vaccinated patients - however this was a mi…

> As other commenters have noted, this case study further supports the widespread observations that COVID-19 vaccines reduce the chance of severe (symptomatic) illness but do not necessarily prevent infection and transmission.

Your argument that the vaccine stops only symptoms and not the infection is false.

If that was true, we would not see countries that practically eradicated the virus instantly after vaccination (like Israel). The virus would still be spreading and infecting people, and those unvaccinated would still be getting seriously ill.

> That being said, IMO there seems to be a growing public opinion that unvaccinated individuals are to blame for the increasing dominance of variants of concern (delta, gamma, etc).

The vaccines have proved to be effective preventing infection from the original strains.

If people have vaccinated then, it is likely we would have been done with the virus.

Now, there were not enough vaccine doses to vaccinate everybody in the world in time, so a strain developing in a poor country could still reach western world. So it may not have been possible to prevent delta completely.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#135

Post by nicoburns »

jsbdk wrote: post #121
aranw wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> imperfect vaccines can cause selective pressure which enhances the fitness of highly virulent pathogens I've wondered this ever since the UK changed it's approach and now that we've got to a state where there is pretty much no restrictions. I think scientists around the world also have this concern with the UK's approach

Why would I want to vaccinate if I'm still going to get restricted? I mean the whole deal here was that if we got vaccinated we'd be back to normal life. If that wasn't the case they should've been sincere up front and most of us wouldn't have gotten vaccinated.

To prevent yourself and others from getting (the severe form of) the virus. I can assure you that most people would still have gotten vaccinated.

Personally what I would like is roughly what we've had in the UK for the previous few months. The ability to do mostly normal life, but with restrictions on large events and mandated precautions such as masks. Along with vaccinations that would probably have been a sustainable state. Unfortunately I strongly suspect that the complete opening up that we're currently seeing will only lead to further lockdowns in a few month's time. I would love to be proved wrong on this, but that's what it's looking like to me at the moment.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#136

Post by marton78 »

elcomet wrote: post #85
timr wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This one scared me since it was a large, relatively unbiased sample, with before-and-after imaging. It also showed brain damage even in mild cases of COVID19 in >10% of cases. It shows no such thing. It's an analysis of MRIs where the authors infer loss of gray matter in specific regions of the brain. This is in no way "brain damage", and representing it this way is leaping to wild conclusions. Lest you not believe…

> bonus points: can you spot the missing correlate?) Concussions ?

Poverty, drug use, poor life choices.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#137

Post by anshorei »

becuzThrowaway wrote: post #105
sschueller wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So does this mean we made this pandemic worse than the one from 1918 when we didn't have a vaccine?

No. First off, we still haven't had the level of death that we had in 1918, and almost certainly won't. Second, the narrative of vaccinated individuals being major spreaders of this disease is false. The virus is evolving due to mutations occurring while hopping from one unvaccinated person to another, full stop.

There's two major metrics to measure the severeness: the mortality rate and the infection rate. I think that "we haven't had the level of death we had in 1918 so the pandemic is less severe" ignores the fact that COVID-19 is far more infectious and therefore in a sense more severe since it will be awfully hard to get rid of for that reason (if we can indeed never get rid of it the number of deaths will keep growing, so might eventually catch up)

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#138

Post by [deleted] »

bigcorp-slave wrote: post #57

If someone can check my math, this seems like a perfect opportunity to do a statistical test. Sample sizes are too small to say that there is a difference between previous infection and no previous infection. Given the contingency table: No prior inf. Prior inf. Infected 3 0 Uninfect 4 6 A Fisher Exact Test yields a p value of 0.1923. So there is not evidence that previously infected people are safe. Similarly, if we…

[deleted]

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#139

Post by yyyk »

Izkata wrote: post #93
criticaltinker wrote: post #84

As other commenters have noted, this case study further supports the widespread observations that COVID-19 vaccines reduce the chance of severe (symptomatic) illness but do not necessarily prevent infection and transmission. The authors of this study conjecture that the unvaccinated asymptomatic “patient 40” may have been the source of the infections seen in the other fully vaccinated patients - however this was a mi…

> One counterpoint that I’ve come across during my own review of the literature, is the idea that imperfect vaccines can cause selective pressure which enhances the fitness of highly virulent pathogens. This is what happened with "Marek's disease", a virus-caused disease in chickens. The vaccine was "leaky" and ended up selecting for a more deadly form, such that now all chickens worldwide have to be vaccinated for i…

1) All current variations of concern come from mostly unvaccinated countries. Apparently there's a serious issue with immunocompromised individuals and the vaccines may help prevent that:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/covid-variants-ma...

2) We can see with SARS and MERS that a more deadly form may actually reduce overall mortality, since the virus can't spread as effectively. However, we haven't had this effect so far.

Re: SARS-CoV-2 Gamma variant infected 16 fully Pfizer vaccinated Guiana gold miners

#140

Post by touisteur »

spfzero wrote: post #65
throwawayboise wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was in response to "I suppose those miners are strong healthy men" They were not. They were obese and hypertensive. That is unhealty no matter what vaccines you take.

Also the median age seemed pretty high for miners in a country with lots more young people than old.

From family experience it seems miners these days tend to be in the old, lifer side. Once you've adapted to the hardship, you mostly keep at it. Can be well paying jobs too, in an area with not a lot of jobs...
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