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It doesn't take much public creativity to stand out as a job candidate

simonwillison.net

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Re: It doesn't take much public creativity to stand out as a job candidate

#11

Post by azinman2 »

ransom1538 wrote: post #6

Interviewee: Check me out! I have 239 twitter followers! Interviewer: Cool. Can you setup mysql replication? What does a read replica mean? Interviewee: Neat! Check out my github on a emoji generator! Interviewer: .... Interviewer: [proceeds to slack least favorite teammate to follow up interview]

Or..

Interviewee: Check me out! I wrote a NES emulator that is cycle accurate and supports a game with a specialized chip that I reverse engineered that no other emulator supported.

There’s a large spectrum of quality of public content out there. You could say the same thing about any resume.

Re: It doesn't take much public creativity to stand out as a job candidate

#12

Post by maxk42 »

simonw wrote: post #8
maxk42 wrote: post #2

I don't understand why "public creativity" would be something you'd screen for in an engineering role.

It's not something you screen for - as I said in the article, "you don’t want to miss out on a great engineer just because they spent all of their energy making great products for prior employers rather than blogging, speaking and coding in public" But if someone has it, you're likely to take it into account. So as a candidate it's useful.

In the article you state "you don’t have to put very much work at all into public creativity in order to stand out as a job candidate". This implies that when I am acting as a hiring manager I would be screening for "public creativity." I'm trying to understand why I would want to do that. I've been a hiring manager for well over a decade and it's never been something I thought I should screen for. Indeed, in my career the majority of the best coworkers I've had have had little to no public presence online and I can think of at least one counterexample of a person who was extremely prolific with blogging and giving talks at conferences who happened to be absolutely garbage at their role. There is some underlying assumption in this article that I'm not grokking.

Re: It doesn't take much public creativity to stand out as a job candidate

#13

Post by simonw »

maxk42 wrote: post #7
tibbetts wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The amount of information available on candidates to hiring managers is extremely limited. Evidence of outside creativity is a pretty good sign that someone is not a bozo.

Again - I fail to see how the second part is derived from the first. If I'm already engaging in a screening process, wouldn't it be better to ask the candidate to solve a problem that relates to their role than to ask them if they've done any blogging on the topic of tech?

Being able to write and communicate clearly is an important skill for software engineers, especially in senior roles - and it's something that's difficult to evaluate in an interview setting.

Interviews don't tend to include writing - and strong communicators who get nervous during interviewers may end up at a disadvantage.

Re: It doesn't take much public creativity to stand out as a job candidate

#14

Post by endisneigh »

This is an interesting post - though it saddens me. It seems modesty is going the way of the dodo. Though it leads to an interesting quandary - is it possible to have an online presence and still honestly call yourself a modest person?

To elaborate - my issue with this post is that it promotes the further commercialization of activity. If you’re doing it because you want to, then you would’ve done it already.

This post basically says, “hey, you - person who probably doesn’t do it, do it and you’ll have an advantage!” IMO it promotes further insincerity, not to imply that those who do have a presence are insincere.

Re: It doesn't take much public creativity to stand out as a job candidate

#15

Post by runawaybottle »

We’re actively encouraging peacocking. It’s no surprise since it’s the current pattern in social media, and obviously it was bound to seep into tech.

‘Keeping up with the Johnsons’ scaled like hell in the digital world. We all know it’s bad, but here we are. If you can’t beat them, join them, and let’s just keep making the world shittier.

The main reason why this line of advice (original tweet) is bad is because it is self promotion for the sake of self promotion.

Here’s a quiet solution: Have a small website and a projects page. Describe a few of the projects and what’s interesting about them. Then send it to the company. It’s no one else’s business.

Re: It doesn't take much public creativity to stand out as a job candidate

#16

Post by simonw »

maxk42 wrote: post #12
simonw wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not something you screen for - as I said in the article, "you don’t want to miss out on a great engineer just because they spent all of their energy making great products for prior employers rather than blogging, speaking and coding in public" But if someone has it, you're likely to take it into account. So as a candidate it's useful.

In the article you state "you don’t have to put very much work at all into public creativity in order to stand out as a job candidate". This implies that when I am acting as a hiring manager I would be screening for "public creativity." I'm trying to understand why I would want to do that. I've been a hiring manager for well over a decade and it's never been something I thought I should screen for. Indeed, in my care…

I tried really hard to make it clear in this post that as a hiring manager it is your job to find great candidates who don't do this. So you shouldn't "screen" for this, in terms of filtering candidates based on whether or not they have evidence of public creativity.

But... of course I look beyond the resume that the candidate has sent me. Which means that, as a candidate, a relatively easy way to stand out is to have a small amount of public creativity on display for hiring managers to spot.

Sometimes a candidate might interview poorly because they get nervous... but there's clear evidence out there of their skills and experience which can help guide a second round of interviews that help avoid missing out on great talent.

Re: It doesn't take much public creativity to stand out as a job candidate

#17

Post by simonw »

runawaybottle wrote: post #15

We’re actively encouraging peacocking. It’s no surprise since it’s the current pattern in social media, and obviously it was bound to seep into tech. ‘Keeping up with the Johnsons’ scaled like hell in the digital world. We all know it’s bad, but here we are. If you can’t beat them, join them, and let’s just keep making the world shittier. The main reason why this line of advice (original tweet) is bad is because it i…

My point here was meant to be that you DON'T need to invest a huge amount of effort in peacocking. Just a small amount of effort in ensuring there are public examples of your work out there is all it takes to get a boost against other candidates who haven't done that.

A small website and a projects page is exactly the knid of thing I'm suggesting here.

Re: It doesn't take much public creativity to stand out as a job candidate

#18

Post by runawaybottle »

simonw wrote: post #17
runawaybottle wrote: post #15

We’re actively encouraging peacocking. It’s no surprise since it’s the current pattern in social media, and obviously it was bound to seep into tech. ‘Keeping up with the Johnsons’ scaled like hell in the digital world. We all know it’s bad, but here we are. If you can’t beat them, join them, and let’s just keep making the world shittier. The main reason why this line of advice (original tweet) is bad is because it i…

My point here was meant to be that you DON'T need to invest a huge amount of effort in peacocking. Just a small amount of effort in ensuring there are public examples of your work out there is all it takes to get a boost against other candidates who haven't done that. A small website and a projects page is exactly the knid of thing I'm suggesting here.

But the active promotion via the social channels is what sets off the ‘keeping up with the Johnsons’ effect. Some people are so shy that they would never consider advertising like that. The peer pressure builds, and suddenly you have a generation of self conscious people maintaining appearances.

Re: It doesn't take much public creativity to stand out as a job candidate

#19

Post by simonw »

endisneigh wrote: post #14

This is an interesting post - though it saddens me. It seems modesty is going the way of the dodo. Though it leads to an interesting quandary - is it possible to have an online presence and still honestly call yourself a modest person? To elaborate - my issue with this post is that it promotes the further commercialization of activity. If you’re doing it because you want to, then you would’ve done it already. This po…

I don't think modesty is incompatible with writing about things online, or sharing projects that you've built.

Re: It doesn't take much public creativity to stand out as a job candidate

#20

Post by giantg2 »

simonw wrote: post #10
giantg2 wrote: post #3

Really? I have a blog (not very active) and two android apps (not popular). I do think the apps help, but I don't think that really makes me stand out. Most places value creativity second to output.

Any time I've been screening candidates I have taken this kind of thing into account. If I was hiring an Android developer the fact that you have two Android apps would absolutely play into my decision process - it would increase the chance that you'd get to an interview, and I'd very likely ask about them during that interview.

I mean, it could be helpful, but my guess is that you would go with someone who has worked on it professionally. Plus you would probably want someone with more recent Kotlin experience.
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