Bezos donates $100M each to CNN contributor Van Jones and chef Jose Andres • Hacker News Board

Re: Bezos donates $100M each to CNN contributor Van Jones and chef Jose Andres

#861

Post by 3wayMerger » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 9:22 PM UTC

cowgoesmoo wrote: post #849

3wayMerger wrote: post #841

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As mentioned before, I don't know what a "fair" pay would be. Maybe it could be based on a percentage of the total revenue? But one man being paid 266,666 apples while others get paid 1 apple doesn't seem "fair". Especially, if the 266,666 produced apples were only possible with the combined work of others. And yes, the work is essential and workers are easily replaceable because the work is something practically any…

Bezos isn't "paid" his net worth. His compensation was actually very low compared to his net worth, only $1.6 million in stock compensation in 2019 (and $82k cash). His net worth comes from his 10% stake in Amazon that he's pretty much had since he founded the company. So, he isn't paid 266,666 apples, he owns 10% of a giant apple farm that he founded.

Yes I understand but even if he isn't necessarily being paid 266,666 apples, he has access to that much wealth. I mean, Bezos is able to start his own space expedition which I don't think many people can do. While that's happening, we have people who are doing essential work getting paid close to minimum wage. Their net worth is probably some insignificant amount. These essential workers probably won't be able even own a home until well later into their life, if ever.

Maybe I'm just too immature and ignorant but the fact that Bezos can start his own space expedition while Amazon workers have to pee into bottles and get paid $15 per hour just doesn't seem fair. And paying people the minimum amount simply because they are replaceable makes it seem like people are treated as if they were resources. Maybe in terms of logistics people can be seen as resources, but my opinion is that people and their lives are not resources. I don't think people go to work and spend a good chunk of their life working just to be a resource for someone else to take advantage of.

Re: Bezos donates $100M each to CNN contributor Van Jones and chef Jose Andres

#862

Post by aeturnum » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 9:29 PM UTC

ncallaway wrote: post #830

aeturnum wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, I favor space exploration and think we, as a society, should spend more money on it than we do now. Second, calling this 'realistic' is nonsense: > It's not pessimistic, it's realistic. [...] on a 100,000 year time horizon. It has been 65 years since Sputnik was launched, so you are projecting out 1,565x that duration into the future. I'm sure you picked a nice, big, round number, but I think it's really impor…

> If the time horizon is really 100,000 or 10,000 years, then addressing climate change would be a blip on that timeline. I agree about the time-horizons. Dealing with climate change is an immediate and urgent priority, whereas the time-horizon for becoming multi-planetary and (eventually) multi-stellar are much longer. That being said, it's all probabilistic, so it's not like there's a bright line when we need to be…

> there will always be current challenges that we face on earth

To me, climate change seems more existential than our other challenges. The reason we can use earth as a base for interplanetary exploration is because the environment is favorable to us. We are putting that at risk.

The only other problem that feels similarly serious is nuclear way.

Re: Bezos donates $100M each to CNN contributor Van Jones and chef Jose Andres

#863

Post by aeturnum » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 9:34 PM UTC

gameman144 wrote: post #666

aeturnum wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, I favor space exploration and think we, as a society, should spend more money on it than we do now. Second, calling this 'realistic' is nonsense: > It's not pessimistic, it's realistic. [...] on a 100,000 year time horizon. It has been 65 years since Sputnik was launched, so you are projecting out 1,565x that duration into the future. I'm sure you picked a nice, big, round number, but I think it's really impor…

> I actually think the most "realistic" approach would be to ban space exploration until climate change is under control. Talk about cutting off one's nose to spite one's face. If we're going down this road, why not take it all the way: * Ban climate change research until hunger is under control * Ban efforts to curb hunger until war is under control * Ban efforts to stop war until disease is under control

> If we're going down this road, why not take it all the way

Hunger and war and disease all have the potential to make furthering space exploration impossible. For example, we just had a pandemic that impacted a lot of people?

However, in general, all of those problems have existed for the entire span of human history. I am not concerned about any of them[1] damaging the earth's ability to be a base for launching humanity as an interstellar species.

Climate change is different. It's especially different because of our inability to face it so far. If we had done the sensible thing and reacted to projections in the 70s by ramping down fossil fuel use, I'd consider is less severe. But we have not.

[1] save nuclear way ofc

Re: Bezos donates $100M each to CNN contributor Van Jones and chef Jose Andres

#864

Post by dredmorbius » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 11:00 PM UTC

cwkoss wrote: post #547

superfrank wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're correct, but that doesn't really change the point I was trying to make Since you've edited your post, I'll respond to the rest. > But they're also just carnival rides for Billionaires, and that's what gets on peoples nerves. If Bezos or Branson had sent someone else up in their place, does that really change anything? Sure, it's expensive and only the super wealthy can afford to go into space right now, but th…

Neither Bezos or Branson achieved orbital velocities, which is the minimum bar for doing useful things related to space. It really is just a carnival ride - it's not about who's in it, its that they didn't actually achieve anything: what they built has no utility except as a dick-measuring contest. Orbit is a little bit of upwards velocity and a whole lot of sideways velocity. They only did the much simpler former. T…

Suborbital rocketry can be useful. Much early rocket science involved "sounding rockets", which were capable of going above (very nearly all of) the Earths' atmosphere, as well as serving as testbed platforms for rocket-surgery-related systems (launch, recovery, plumbing, guidance, etc.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sounding_rocket

The delta-v differential between sub-orbital and orbital is tremendous, though.

Re: Bezos donates $100M each to CNN contributor Van Jones and chef Jose Andres

#865

Post by cma » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 11:27 PM UTC

asciimov wrote: post #283

cactus2093 wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This line of argument is so completely unhinged. Bezos paid roughly $1B in taxes in 2018, and Amazon warehouses pay well above the minimum wage. I understand progressives wanting to raise taxes and raise minimum wage, but why in the world would you blame someone personally for just paying the going rate? That's what we all do for the taxes and service providers we pay.

Bezos makes an easy identifiable target, much easier to call out Bezos than any of the Walton's of Walmart. The real issue is that major corporations aren't paying their fair share of the costs of running this country. From underpaying workers (who have to use public assistance) to getting sweetheart deals to build in your area. Thanks to amazon I have more heavy delivery trucks running up and down my street. Meaning…

One commercial van comes by and delivers packages to 20 residents vs 20 people drive 2-4ton vehicles to the store and back.

Due to scaling laws the delivery truck maybe does similar road damage, but you've saved fuel and lots of valuable time, better for the climate, and less contribution to traffic.

Are passenger busses ok? They are in a pretty similar place.

Re: Bezos donates $100M each to CNN contributor Van Jones and chef Jose Andres

#866

Post by maccam94 » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 12:15 AM UTC

shkkmo wrote: post #529

maccam94 wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's viewed as wasteful because it doesn't actually get people into orbit, AND it is expensive. Thus, it's only really appealing to rich people with cash to burn. These vehicles aren't even stepping stones to orbital rockets, and orbital launch prices are dropping. It's much more likely that SpaceX will offer tickets to orbit for $25k in the next 5-10 years than it will be for Virgin Galactic to do so. Blue O…

Blue Origin is building and firing the BE-4 engines that will be used by New Glen and I rather doubt that there isn't work being done to fabricate other systems given the work that has been completed on their Florida manufacturing facility. Do you have sources that indicate fabrication has not started?

Aha I have found footage showing a New Glenn first stage in the factory earlier this year: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXOXKfarFhg

I believe I was recalling another video tour, probably from last year, where they said "And this is where the assembled rockets will be stored" and the factory floor was empty. It's pretty cool that they've made so much progress since then!

Re: Bezos donates $100M each to CNN contributor Van Jones and chef Jose Andres

#867

Post by cartoonworld » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 2:25 AM UTC

dane-pgp wrote: post #673

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #662

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like you might be joking, but no the plastic does not come from carbon removed from the air. We remove it from the ground as oil, turn it in to plastic, ship it overseas in carbon polluting container ships, transport each item to an end customer, and then transport them to the landfill where they will persist for generations. So no, I am not saying that.

I was half joking, so let me try to make the serious case here. By purchasing oil to turn into plastics, manufacturers are in competition with buyers who intend to simply burn their oil-derived products (fuels). This increased competition must cause some (small) increase in the price of oil that has to be paid by the oil burners, making it marginally less economically competitive in comparison to renewable energy sou…

Joke acknowledged :)

but...

The oil isn't turned into plastic[0], the petrochemicals used in plastic don't compete with fuel, it is a byproduct of the oil extraction and fracturing process[1] mostly from the lighter natural gas components I believe. The effect is likely the opposite of what you imagine it to be in your example.

Keep in mind that the price of fuel isn't the same as the price of crude, as the fuel is a separate commodity whose production is tied to refinement of crude, which is the primary commodity.

In fact, using this industrial byproduct to create plastic will reduce the cost of oil extraction. The transportation of the packaged good which are enabled by this ubiquitous packaging technology will now drive demand for transportation, in turn raising the price again. The cheapening of fuel and plastic packaged goods incentivizes further usage and investment, and so the wheels turn on ...

It gets much more complicated from there and also involves some missiles and ground-based radar systems.

[0] - https://inbound.teamppi.com/blog/oil-to-plastic-a-lesson-on-...

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethylene

Re: Bezos donates $100M each to CNN contributor Van Jones and chef Jose Andres

#868

Post by LargoLasskhyfv » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 3:15 AM UTC

superfrank wrote: post #271

hemloc_io wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's really fair to lump Bezos, Branson, and Musk into the same bucket. Musk, for all his flaws, started an actual rocket company with new and frankly insane tech. Bezos and especially Branson's ventures feel much more like personal vanity projects than something that will actually push space exploration. I mean Blue Origin has been running for 20 years and the best we have from them is flights that wer…

> Bezos and especially Branson's ventures feel much more like personal vanity projects than something that will actually push space exploration. I'm not sure why people feel this need to draw this weird line in the sand and say that SpaceX is okay because Musk built a business, but Blue Origin and Virgin are bad because... reasons? Technology advances for all sorts of reasons. Lamborghinis exist because a farmer was…

But they have not put someone in orbit. Neither of them. Let's see if New Glenn 'delivers'...

Re: Bezos donates $100M each to CNN contributor Van Jones and chef Jose Andres

#869

Post by lwhi » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 7:34 AM UTC

Zelphyr wrote: post #9

All the critics lobbing cynicism against Bezos, Branson, and Musk saying, in essence, that their money is better spent here at home reminds me of a wonderful scene from The West Wing when one character asks why we have to go to Mars: "'Cause it's next. For we came out of the cave, and we looked over the hill, and we saw fire. And we crossed the ocean, and we pioneered the West, and we took to the sky. The history of…

We ruin what we have and move on.

The problem with the West Wing, was that it added a pompulus romantic sheen to subjects that arguably didn't deserve it.

Re: Bezos donates $100M each to CNN contributor Van Jones and chef Jose Andres

#870

Post by kypro » Fri, Jul 23, 2021, 10:29 AM UTC

themolecularman wrote: post #629

kypro wrote: post #115

Kind of genius… My understanding as a Brit is that CNN are known to be supportive of progressive economic policies. I suspect they’re also critical of the existence of billionaires like Bezos in a society where many struggle to feed their families. Bribing influential CNN contributors who hold progressive or far-left economic policies is probably one of the better ways to help shift the media narrative towards one th…

It's not a bribe. Van Jones will likely quit his job as a CNN commentator. Why would he stay? It's a strange donation tbh. Also CNN is a very partisan news source and Van Jones isn't a "middle of the aisle" type. I personally find the Jose donation fine but am kind of put off by this donation to a CNN "journalist".

> Van Jones will likely quit his job as a CNN commentator.

Sounds like a win then.