Autonomy founder Mike Lynch can be extradited to US • Hacker News Board

Re: Autonomy founder Mike Lynch can be extradited to US

#121

Post by gunapologist99 » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 8:57 PM UTC

mattnewton wrote: post #108

Spooky23 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The opposite is true as well. A US person can be federally charged for violating a foreign law while overseas. The example used when I read of this was a guy convicted for wrapping lobsters for shipment in Nicaragua in wax paper instead of a bag (or something along those lines). It was very strange because the violation in Nicaragua was a misdemeanor, but the US law for committing a crime is a felony.

That sounds like the lobster seller was charged under the notoriously broad Lacy Act, which I have heard most often in arguments that is is impossible to be cognizant of everything that is illegal in the US, since this law roughly imports foreign laws. My understanding is it makes it a federal crime to trade in wildlife or plants that are illegal under the laws of a state, a Native American tribe, or any foreign law.…

And not just living plants, but also (quite dead) wood and products derived from wood, apparently especially if the CEO donated to the opposing political party (the GOP):

https://humanevents.com/2014/05/30/the-true-villains-behind-...

Re: Autonomy founder Mike Lynch can be extradited to US

#122

Post by argonaut » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 8:57 PM UTC

anonymousDan wrote: post #89

trasz wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re talking about Anne Sacoolas. There’s more to it: she’s a spook, and she fled on board of US military plane, lying about having diplomatic immunity.

Yes - my understanding is she was the wife of a spoon and didn't have diplomatic immunity? I agree perhaps there is more to it, but still it leaves a bad taste in the mouth.

There are conflicting reports on her diplomatic immunity and whether she was still employed as a spy (she was definitely employed by the US govt at the time, and as a spy in the past). So it's not as simple as saying she didn't have it or she lied about it. Looks to me like a complicated legal matter.

At least the US State Dept position is that she did have diplomatic immunity.

Re: Autonomy founder Mike Lynch can be extradited to US

#123

Post by tootie » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 8:59 PM UTC

mark_l_watson wrote: post #64

I tried using Autonomy's NLP product at work in (about) 2001. It had good functionality but when I later heard what HP was paying for Autonomy, I was flabbergasted at what I thought was a very high price for their IP and software. I had no inside information of Autonomy except for trying their product, so take my opinions with a grain of salt.

They had a lot of big customers. In the web 1.0 days, Autonomy was the de facto search platform for any big enterprise project. It was the Oracle of search. Similarly, I did quite of projects using the Interwoven suite of products that were acquired by Autonomy. The software was really not very impressive, but it was functional enough and had loads of deep-pocketed customers.

Re: Autonomy founder Mike Lynch can be extradited to US

#124

Post by teh_klev » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 8:59 PM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #104

stormdennis wrote: post #61

America shouldn't be allowed to extradite and prosecute people who have not committed crimes in America. They'd never allow it in reverse. Also the justice system there doesn't inspire confidence.

> America shouldn't be allowed to extradite... America aren't extraditing him - the UK is extraditing him.

Sure, but a bit nit-picky. The extradition process being fought against in court was initiated by the US government.

Re: Autonomy founder Mike Lynch can be extradited to US

#125

Post by microtherion » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 9:03 PM UTC

f38zf5vdt wrote: post #110

trasz wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She (and US officials I think?) lied that she was a diplomat’s wife and thus had immunity. The fact that she’s herself a spook - and thus didn’t have immunity - was discovered later, during the trial.

For non-native English speakers, spook is vernacular for government intelligence agent (spy).

… or a caucasian, or an Asian, or an Afrian-American, or an Australian, or a heroin addict: https://greensdictofslang.com/entry/a23ap7q

Clearly, the parent comment's interpretation is correct in this context. The only other use I've encountered was #3, I believe in James Ellroy novels.

Re: Autonomy founder Mike Lynch can be extradited to US

#126

Post by cycomanic » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 9:03 PM UTC

freeopinion wrote: post #118

guiriduro wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like something that would potentially be criminal in the jurisdiction in which the company operated, and for whom any questions of interpretation of accounting as criminal or otherwise would be wholly circumscribed: that jurisdiction is the UK. Nothing - especially a US-style "plea bargain" of trumped up charges threatening long incarceration unless the victim pleads 'guilty' to them, akin to torture in the wo…

https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/autonomy says that Autonomy HQ is in San Francisco, CA.

You have read the article saying the company was sold in 2011?

Re: Autonomy founder Mike Lynch can be extradited to US

#127

Post by hellbannedguy » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 9:08 PM UTC

gunapologist99 wrote: post #121

mattnewton wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds like the lobster seller was charged under the notoriously broad Lacy Act, which I have heard most often in arguments that is is impossible to be cognizant of everything that is illegal in the US, since this law roughly imports foreign laws. My understanding is it makes it a federal crime to trade in wildlife or plants that are illegal under the laws of a state, a Native American tribe, or any foreign law.…

And not just living plants, but also (quite dead) wood and products derived from wood, apparently especially if the CEO donated to the opposing political party (the GOP): https://humanevents.com/2014/05/30/the-true-villains-behind-...

"At one point in the saga, Juszkiewicz was told by government agents he could make his problems go away if he used foreign labor for manufacturing."

Wow--

(I do get we should not be importing endangered s pieces of wood. This seems like someone overreacted? I guess the moral of the story is don't play around with the feds?)

Re: Autonomy founder Mike Lynch can be extradited to US

#128

Post by buran77 » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 9:08 PM UTC

kube-system wrote: post #120

buran77 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> when countries disagree significantly on law, they just don't sign extradition agreements That isn't about "compatibility" of the laws. The US has extradition treaties with pretty much all of their allies but the conditions are mainly dictated by the US given their stronger position. No country's laws condones war crimes and yet no international court even tried prosecuting any case of suspected war crimes committe…

I'm not talking about disagreements in the minutia of law. I'm talking about "disagreement" of law in a broad context. Extraditions to the US, even from countries with which the US has a treaty, are not always honored. My point is that it's not a one-way street. Countries extradite because they think it's in their best interest.

> Countries extradite because they think it's in their best interest

Indeed and that was my point. Treaties are signed despite significant disagreements in the law, that's not the driving factor you made it out to be earlier. The EU and the US historically disagreed significantly on things like the death penalty or drug related crimes yet the extradition treaties were readily signed. But interests are better served by avoiding retaliation.

Re: Autonomy founder Mike Lynch can be extradited to US

#129

Post by _se » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 9:08 PM UTC

NiceWayToDoIT wrote: post #76

_se wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you understand the complexity of this type of finance or the sophistication that's possible while committing fraud. These things are not necessarily simple to detect.

Maybe I don't as it must be some very sophisticated fraud when checking all in the following list they missed something like that. " Corporate attorneys generally review all the company’s financial information from the last five years, including income statements, balance sheets, cash flow and audit reports. Other financial documents that may be reviewed include projections, budgets and forecasts for the financials o…

Yes, and the entire point of this type of fraud is to deceive this exact process. The fraudster knows what due diligence is going to be performed.

Re: Autonomy founder Mike Lynch can be extradited to US

#130

Post by kube-system » Thu, Jul 22, 2021, 9:12 PM UTC

buran77 wrote: post #128

kube-system wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not talking about disagreements in the minutia of law. I'm talking about "disagreement" of law in a broad context. Extraditions to the US, even from countries with which the US has a treaty, are not always honored. My point is that it's not a one-way street. Countries extradite because they think it's in their best interest.

> Countries extradite because they think it's in their best interest Indeed and that was my point. Treaties are signed despite significant disagreements in the law, that's not the driving factor you made it out to be earlier. The EU and the US historically disagreed significantly on things like the death penalty or drug related crimes yet the extradition treaties were readily signed. But interests are better served b…

There are multiple factors and law is absolutely one.

The fact that the US has the death penalty is a commonly cited reason that other countries deny or hesitate to extradite.